Talk:Microsoft PlaysForSure

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Play For Sure[edit]

1°)Who know exactly the difference between PLAY FOR SURE and PLAY FROM DEVICE ?
1#°)Who know exactly the difference between PLAY FOR SURE and MTP basic and enhancer ?
=> I have found, PlayForSure is a part of MTP core protocol. 2°)Is "Play From Device" a sub part of Play For Sure as MTP for PFS ?
=> No it's somthing else. 3°)Do you have an Host Software like WinAmp able to do PFD streaming ??
4°)Which player support Tree classification with MTP technologie ?

Thanks !

Reporting Errors[edit]

Playsforsure does not report what the portable device can play. It reports what Windows Media Player can play. Some devices can play additional formats that WMP can't play, Ogg Vorbis for example. Playsforsure will wrongly inform you that a device can't play Ogg Vorbis and will refuse to transfer tracks. See this article "Judge blasts MS bid to monopolize music devices" Diamond Dave 14:38:25 27/10/05
OGG files are not certified for PlayForSure due to standardization issues. It doesn't say that your music player *CAN'T* play it, it just tells you it's not going to "play for sure" 4.161.86.37 22:56, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Removed uncited weasel-words[edit]

Finally, some owners of portable devices indicate that Playsforsure and the Media Transfer Protocol results in the loss of USB mass storage functionality. Other owners of portable devices, indicate that the loss in USB mass storage functionality is fully offset by the better music management and music cataloguing capabilities afforded by Windows Media Player and other software that carry Playsforsure certification.

PhilHibbs | talk 17:30, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Peculiar assertion[edit]

"Alternatively, due to Playsforsure and Media Transfer Protocol, makers of portable devices are no longer required to write proprietary media transfer and music management software. This may reduce cost to the consumer."

The new alternative is that they can buy proprietary software from Microsoft. They could always buy proprietary software from other vendors (or use open source software and pay patent licensing for certain codecs in certain countries).

Should this say instead:

"Microsoft may license its software for less than other providers so the price consumers pay for the devices may be reduced."

Is that is what is meant, or is there something else going on? Like:

"Since Microsoft is an aggressive competitor (often using cross-subsidizing to sell below cost to gain marketshare) it is likely that the prices for proprietary player software will be reduced. These savings may be passed on to the consumer, at least until competition is eliminated." DHR 16:43, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


What is PlaysForSure?[edit]

One would expect a definitive answer from Microsoft's http://www.playsforsure.com/WhatIsPlaysForSure.aspx

Unfortunately, this page clearly does not explain what its title promises "WHAT IS PLAYSFORSURE?"

Is it a certification program (i.e. Microsoft will certify that a device with the branding passes certain tests showing that it has certain capabilities)? If so, is there a fee? Is the fee waived if certain software is licensed from Microsoft?

Is it a branding program (surely)? Is the brand trademarked (surely, but I don't see notification on Microsoft's page)?

Is it an offering of proprietary software? Just for the player, or also for the host computer? Can a device be branded without licensing the proprietary software?

Is there a way in which host computers running operating systems other than Microsoft Windows can support PlaysForSure devices? If so, what licensing is required or available? Is branding possible?

Is it a protocol (extended PTP or USB storage, plus WMP codecs)? It is rather odd for a protocol to support such different options as extended PTP and USB storage. I suspect that they are mutually incompatible -- a USB device must declare itself to the USB host as doing at most one of these things.

The article seems to suggest clearly that PlaysForSure is a certification, but this cannot be the whole story.

USB storage functionality is very useful (it lets you use the player as a data transport device, it should allow support from other operating systems). If a USB storage device can be branded as PlaysForSure, why are (some? most? all?) player vendors opting for extended PTP? DHR 17:22, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


Answer: it is not an 'innovation' to benefit any user, it is a strategy for market tyranny and dominance to ensure Microsoft's bottom line, and just another part of the Embrace Extend and Extinguish campaign microsoft has used in numerous other fields, i.e. .NET to extinguish Java, DVRMS to extinguish mpg, wma to extinguish mp3 etc etc. There is little real benefit to the consumer and much actual inconvenience, i.e. the inability to transfer mp3 files via a USB mass storage protocol, which is much easier than the MTP protocol. I have verified that at least one MTP device Samsung YH-925GS is prevented from using the USB mass storage protocol when configured as MTP.
That's not an answer, that's FUD. *ALL* PfS does, it checks the hardware during the certification process to make sure it supports the listed audio\video protocols correctly. It also checks the online media stores to make sure their offerings also correctly support the implementations used. And btw, DVRMS is a wrappered MPEG, since they were forced to include added DRM in any of their own offerings. 4.161.86.37 23:06, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

None of these questions seems to have been answered. Worse, the article seems to start as if it were an ad from Microsoft:

tested against several hundred compatibility and performance requirements

The real point of PfS is that the items so branded include software licensed from Microsoft. The terms of those licenses are not disclosed to the public as far as I know. DHR 06:40, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Great. I removed WMP from my computer via script (I can't stand phone-home software) and that means I can't use my Creative Zen with Windows at all, there's no way to get any files on it without WMP, not to speak of being able to conveniently use any file manager to manage the content on the player. That's the real point of PfS!--213.39.132.199 (talk) 09:18, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

microsoft playsforsure store closing[edit]

Coinciding with the Zune, as of November 2006 Microsoft is apparently closing its playsforsure music store (http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=146275), but say they will maintain nominal support for the program. My question is, if the store is shut down, what do they mean by support? Stickers on boxes? Cut through the adspeak, playsforsure is as good as dead methinks. - Plasticbadge 02:01, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

History of PlaysForSure[edit]

A timeline for this initiative would be interesting I think. When it was announced and introduced, revisions and when which notable devices started supporting it. Repetition 19:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's an article written Omar Shahine of MS on PlaysForSure: http://blogs.msdn.com/omars/archive/2004/10/21/245439.aspx - 23:50, 26 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.42.55.195 (talk)

Please also mention SoundTaxi[edit]

Very well-known software for DRM removal from WM files. -andy 80.129.88.2 07:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Spam!!![edit]

This article reads like a blatant advertisment. It's extremely one-sided and was probably written by a Microsoft employee. 71.166.11.126 18:53, 26 December 2006 (UTC) user: Awesimo

I was going to remove the speedy deletion tag, but someone else already beat me to it. If you plan on marking pages for speedy deletion, please post real reasons why. This reads no diffrent than any other comercial product's wiki page. 4.161.86.37 22:56, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
I object to deletion, the page is quite concise and does not use weasel terms etc. The word is used extensively in MS marketing and readers will need a neutral discussion of the term, and that is provided by this Wikipedia entry. Please edit out whatever is objectionable about it, I cannot find anything. Nixdorf 08:28, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't know how it evolved, but as of Jan 08, the page is unreadable and utterly confuse. For instance, it starts with "PlayForSure *was* a...", and never explicitly explains the fate of PlayForSure. Also, in the introduction paragraph, the sentence "content from their retired MSN Music store would need to be licensed to play before this date" doesn't convey any meaning to readers. Not knowing anything about the PlayForSure disaster, I wouldn't be able to understand anything by reading the article... 82.230.65.68 (talk) 00:45, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

PlaysForSure is just Microsoft marketing hype.[edit]

PlaysForSure is just a way for Microsoft to get their low-quality DRM crippled codec into every player on the market. Before DRM, there were no compatibility problems - CDs and MP3s just played on any player.

Vendor lock-in?[edit]

Do you think SPlayForSure contributes to Vendor lock-in? Would it help to have a category identifying Category:Non-interoperable systems? The issue is being voted on, please contribute your vote / opinion: here. Pgr94 23:32, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

File Transfer with PlaysForSure MTP Devices[edit]

One of the criticisms in the article notes that PlaysForSure MTP devices are not capable of direct file transfer, as mass storage devices are naturally able to do. This, however, was a limitation of the MTP driver included with Windows Media Player 10. As of Windows Media Player 11 (both XP and Vista versions), MTP devices are able to transfer files, including DRM'd media, to other PCs through Windows Explorer, just like a mass storage device would. Licenses for DRM'd media can then be reacquired for the new PC by logging into the service on the new PC and authorizing it. BlkPhnx 09:11, 11 March 2007 (UTC)BlkPhnx

Part of the criticism that you missed is that it can't transfer certain file types (it simply won't let you if you try to drag and drop them). 168.184.243.91 (talk) 23:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Is there a conflict between PlaysForSure and other DRM-Systems (audible.com)?[edit]

Hi! Can a portable device manage both DRM-Systems: That of PlaysForSure (napster.com, napster.de, urge.com ...) and that of audible.com/audible.de? This article indicates it cannot manage both. Such is my experience. But iriver said that the portable audio device "iriver T30 (P)/MTP 1GB" can manage both. That indicates also the FAQ/Help-Sides of Iriver: http://www.iriver.com/support/faq_view.asp?searchProductIdx=&searchString=&page=1&idx=400&tmpSearchProductIdx=Select+a+Product&tmpSearchString= http://www.iriver.com/product/p_detail.asp?pidx=73 Does somebody know a portable device, which is "surely" able to manage both DRM-Systems, so that you can copy and play files of both DRM-Systems at the same time on one device? Pistazienfresser 17:03, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I know for a fact that there are some Sandisk MP3 players that can play both.168.184.243.91 (talk) 23:32, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

More like PlaysForclosure![edit]

amirite?67.62.15.241 (talk) 22:25, 31 December 2008 (UTC)