Talk:Middle East

Need more info on the climate.

hey guys, I was reaind this article for info for my paper and there is absolutely no useable info on the climate of the region, can someone get some info with sources, especially on soil.

Timezones

There is: Time Zones UTC +8:00 (Tibet) to UTC +3:30 (Iran) But I know that Turkey, Egipt, Jordan. Lebanon (Syria?) are in UTC +2

G8 definition of the Greater Middle East

I've removed "G8 definition" from the reference to the "Greater Middle East" on the map, as there is no reference in either article to it having been used in a G8 meeting, much less endorsed by G8 leaders.

I'm not too happy about the result, however, as it makes it sounds as though "Greater Middle East" is a common term for those countries, whereas it doesn't appear to be a term of any real significance.

Can anyone think of a better description for the term? Aoeuidhtns (talk) 13:40, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Link to German Article is "Naher Osten"

The English term "Middle East" directly translates to the German words "Mittlerer" and "Osten". But in German language the tem "Mittlerer Osten" is used for the area from Iran eastwards, the term "Naher Osten" (which would directly translate from "Near East") matches the area of the Englisch term "Middle East" (Syria, Israel, Jordan ...). So I will change the link to the German language article to "Naher Osten" as this is the area "Middle East" refers to. --Orangwiki (talk) 18:17, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I reverted this, as there is no 1 to 1 correspondence, a literal link seems better. -- Perrak (talk) 19:30, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Here is a discussion in German between me and Perrak [1]. The article "Middle East" now links to the German article "Mittlerer Osten" again which is decribing a completely different territory and shoud be considered wrong. But Wikipedia rules about if A points to B then B needs to point back at A seems to make this inevitable. If someone has an idea to improve this go ahead. So far now this article will point to a German word that describes an area that is completely differnt. --Orangwiki (talk) 21:11, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Near East is a narrow term used more in Archaeology really, it even has its own article. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 16:51, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Flinders Petrie: You're probably right about the English term "Near East", but the German term "Naher Osten" means exactly what the English term "Middle East" means. --Orangwiki (talk) 19:19, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, they're kind of the same thing in English too, but Naher Osten appears to get more hits. As a side not, is that genetiv? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 00:09, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Globalize template discussion proposal

Hallo there,

maybe this article should have the {{globalize}} template at the beginning...

Links to other languages have slightly different meanings.

Not to mention that the article starts with:

"The Middle East (from a European perspective) (...)".

I hope this comment it's not going to be considered POV. Please assume good faith.

Thanks for your attention.

Maurice Carbonaro (talk) 09:51, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Nassif.seif, 19 February 2011

{{edit semi-protected}}

Demographics

Ethnic groups

See also: Demographics of the Arab League

Various ethnic and religious types present in the Middle East, 19th century

The Middle East is home to numerous ethnic groups, including Arabs, Maronites Turks, Persians, Jews, Kurds, Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriacs, Armenians, Azeris, Circassians, Greeks and Georgians.

Nassif.seif (talk) 03:50, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Partly done -- I added the Maronites, but didn't see any reason to remove the Copts. If you'd like any further help, contact me on my user talk page. You might instead want to put a {{help me}} template up on your own user talk, or put the {{edit semi-protected}} template back up on this page and either way someone will be along to help you. :) Banaticus (talk) 11:07, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 94.254.1.129, 25 April 2011

It is dubious to have French and Greek listed amongst the "languages" in the middle-east. They have a very brief history in the region and a nominal presence. They lay in the same bracket with native languages like Armaic, Persian, Kurdish and Arabic which is mistake. They should have a category of their own since they obviously are different in status then the rest.

94.254.1.129 (talk) 23:13, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Not done: Greek is one of the official languages of Cyprus, and French is used in Lebanon. — Bility (talk) 22:32, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Funny bit in the lede, and some other stuff

This is something that made me laugh when I read it: "In modern times the Middle East remains a strategically, economically, politically, culturally and religiously sensitive region.[clarification needed]" Clarifying that statement in a small amount of time would be quite a task. Just in Israel and Palestine alone, you have continuous conflict for over 3.000 years (though more in the last 2.400 years). Hell, in Jerusalem alone, you've had 118 battles in the last 3.000 years (Source: Jerusalem Besieged by Eric H. Cline). If you're talking about the whole region, how do you condense that idea into the lede so that it doesn't need further clarification? I assume sensitive here means that people fight over it.

Also, hi, I'm Flinders Petrie (not the real one of course, he's quite deceased), and I'll state my biases right now so that they don't get in the way of editing this article. I am an ardent Zionist with a strong pro-Israel view, however I harbour no ill-feelings towards any other other peoples of the Middle East, including the Palestinians. I believe that the article should convey what the reliable sources say, even if we're not happy with what they say.

So I see this article is rated a C-Class. I have two questions, A, can an article on such a contentious topic can ever reach Featured Class? If so, how can we better get it there and avoid the sort of conflict that pervades the subject region? (though thankfully we don't have to be worried about getting shot) Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 18:16, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

That is an interesting clarification needed location. The lead of course could be longer, but you can't go into full details of all the conflicts, even in the actual article itself. It'd be way too long. Anyway, improving this article would first of all require more sources. Can this reach FA status? Perhaps, although no regional article I know of has. How is conflict avoided? By editors discussing and accepting some things may be written not fully in line with their viewpoint. Anyway, that is secondary to actually getting sourced content on the page. That should be the priority in article improvement, rather than figuring out where it leans. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 05:30, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

We could look to see how different authors have characterised the idea of it being filled with conflict. I agree that is how we avoid conflict, but first you have to get them to actually discuss and agree! xD Well sourced content shouldn't be too hard given how many people have written on it. The only thing we need to figure out on those is which are best to use. =) I think given the fact that this region is so rich in history, culture, and everything else that makes it so wonderful, it deserves to be, nay, must be allowed to be fixed to the point where it can be an FA. I think most of the editors can agree on having a love of this region. Maybe that love can somehow be used to get them to give up their own biases and want to give her the sort of article worthy of her? Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie Say Shalom! 05:56, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

No need to give up on it. True, it is an article written by non-experts who like the animals of animal farm have to learn to do things far beyond their capabilities. Any expectation of a good article any time soon needs to be tempered. But, articles do improve with gradual refinement over time. Oh, there is one point I see offhand, and that is the mention of traditional definitions as though those ever existed. This is a dynamic field, always has been. I'm not so sure "traditional" actually means anything here.Dave (talk) 10:28, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Afghanistan is part of the middle east

You should add a map that shows afghanistan as part of the middle east. Most afghans are an iranic/iranian people, and are tied with Iran. Although geographically part of central asia and western asia, Afghanistan shares only a little with it's central asian turkic neighbors( uzbeks and turkmen in the north). Here is a map that you can put up instead of the current map.http://www.globalresearch.ca/coverStoryPictures/13556.jpg (Metalman59 19:08, 24 August 2011 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Metalman59 (talk • contribs)

ISS Videos

I think the Videos right under "Contents" should be moved down, maybe to the end of the article. They are, without any doubt, very nice to watch. But i think their encyclopedic value is not very high. Duff06 (talk) 15:23, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Y Done: I agree. Regardless of encyclopaedic value (or lack thereof), their old location was downright disruptive. So I moved them down into a "Gallery" section. -- Skysmurf  (Talk) 00:36, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Pakistan is not in the Middle East

Pakistan is not considered to be in the Middle East by most Pakistanis. Moreover, geographically, it is a part of South Asia, not the Middle East. Pakistan was a part of India until 1947, and up till now, its culture is very similar to Indian culture, and is not like Middle Eastern culture. Although majority of the population is Muslim, no one speaks Arabic, and just the religion doesn't make the country a part of the Middle East. I am a Pakistani National, and I have talked to many (around 50) people (Americans with reputable knowledge on South Asia, and Pakistanis who find it bizarre that anyone should consider Pakistan a part of the Middle East).

Therefore I would highly appreciate if you did more research before listing Pakistan as part of the extended Middle East. Personally I would like Pakistan to be removed from the list. Anyone who reads this article assumes that Pakistani culture is Middle-Eastern, rather than South Asian. Since I have lived in Pakistan all my life, I think our culture is wholly South Asian, and has no Middle-Eastern elements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.229.180.71 (talk) 06:59, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

I do not think that cultural aspects are the deciding factor here as Georgia and Somalia also have no cultural similarities. I think "extended middle east" makes it perfectly clear that Pakistan is not considered to be a part of the middle east in its closest sense. But at least american and european media often put Pakistan into the category "middle east". --Duff06 (talk) 09:28, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Just my two cents: the term "Middle East" is broad (if not vague) and can mean many things. Perhaps Pakistan ought not to be considered part of the Middle East culturally, but geographically it's borderline and politically it's probably justified. It all depends on what exactly is meant by (extended) Middle East and that varies. Perhaps the article could/should explain more clearly that the term Middle East can mean many things and that some countries may or may not be part of it, depending on what (and by whom) is meant exactly. -- Skysmurf  (Talk) 20:17, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 January 2012

Turkey cannot be categorised in the list of Traditional definition of the Middle East.

Oztgy001 (talk) 02:14, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Would you provide a source for this? carl bunderson (talk) (contributions) 03:48, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 14 January 2012

Please change the capital of Israel from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv because the former is not officially recognised as the capital city of Israel (especially as east Jerusalem is recongised as officially belonging to Palestine) whereas the latter is.

163.1.51.13 (talk) 13:18, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

N Not done, see the note next to it: "2 Under Israeli law. The UN doesn't recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital."--Jac16888 ^Talk 16:57, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Very important clarification

Egypt is not in the Middle East. Neither is Greece. These are both Mediterranean countries. Russia, Uzbekistan, etc. are certainly not in the Middle East either. How can any of these articles be taken seriously when the most fundamental facts, such as basic geography, are incorrect? There is no edit on the page. Commenting here was the best alternative. Please see this link for a more accurate map of the Middle East.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.112.206.112 (talk • contribs) 21:57, 8 February 2012 (UTC)