Talk:Midland Bridge

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Was this ever a rail bridge?[edit]

If I've understood this article correctly, it implies that Midland Bridge (the one that now carries Midland Bridge Road across the river Avon) was once a railway bridge. I believe that this to be incorrect and that this bridge was always a road bridge but I have no proof of this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gsoper (talk • contribs) 17:21, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder as well. The Buchanan cite says:

"The adjacent steel girder bridge carrying Midland Bridge Road across Midland Bridge came after the railway. It was built by A. Handyside & Co. Ltd. of Derby and London to improve access from Green Park and the City Centre to the Lower Bristol Road, and was opened in 1905."

and if you look at a 1902 updated map, just before the 1905 open date, there is no clear sign the railway crossed the river at this point (though it is feasible). I think a critical review of the cites is needed. Confusion may be because there is both "Midland Bridge Road" (this bridge) and "Midland Road" (with destructor bridge). Rwendland (talk) 11:01, 30 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think you're right - and this was probably my mistake in the first place. This "Midland Bridge" (the crossing site) dates from 1870 and was built by the railway. But it wasn't built to bring the S&DJR line into Green Park as I'd always thought, it was to provide a road link from central Bath out to the growing railway goods station, SW of the river. Previously this was accessed by the suspension bridge. The S&DJR curve into Green Park is well to the West of this site and its traffic crosses the same Midland Railway bridge as the Bristol and Mangotsfield traffic did.
What still puzzles me is this 1905 bridge. Why is it built so substantially? It looks like a 1905 bridge, but like a railway bridge, not a road bridge/ Andy Dingley (talk) 11:26, 30 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Don't feel guilty. I believed the article until today, and added to it on that basis - maybe some of the mistakes are mine. I think it was built for trams per the article, so maybe that is why it is a rail style bridge. I'm very busy the next few days so won't review the cites again soon. If you fancy it, please do. Rwendland (talk)
Interesting. What weight are trams, as bridge loading? Do they need stronger bridges than 1870 road bridges, hence the need to replace an otherwise serviceable bridge? Andy Dingley (talk) 15:01, 30 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Good point, my idea not that plausible. Maybe the railways company built it and perhaps (part) funded it. They got the real benefit as a good road route from their goods yard to central Bath. Otherwise traffic would then have to go south of the river the the bridge near Bath Spa to cross the Avon, or go a longer route starting eastward. Rwendland (talk) 16:10, 30 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just FYI various dated 6" OS maps are: 1885/6, 1902, 1930, 1938. But they don't shed much light on this problem or the one below, though first two show smaller predecessor to Midland Bridge. Rwendland (talk) 20:35, 30 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The old railway bridge

If the text of this bridge is being reviewed against the sources it would also be good to look at Bath Green Park railway station where it says "When the Somerset and Dorset Railway completed its Bath extension line in 1874, they connected into the Midland line at Bath Junction via the newly constructed Midland Bridge, a half mile outside the station, and in friendly co-operation with the Midland company they used the station." without a citation. It may that there is some confusion between the Midland Bridge and the one approx 200m north which now carries the road into Sainsbury's car park, which the Green Park Station article says "Immediately outside the station, trains crossed a bridge over the Avon. This bridge is a Town truss, a design patented by the American architect Ithiel Town in 1820 with the aim of reducing the labour costs in constructing timber bridges. From the late 1840s the design was adapted in Britain for construction in wrought iron, and the Avon Bridge is a fine surviving example." Would that one which I believe did originally carry the railway be worth its own article, which may reduce confusion, however the tern "Avon Bridge" is used which may cause confusion with Avon Bridge in Bristol?— Rod talk 18:39, 30 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For comparison I have added a pic of the old railway bridge.— Rod talk 19:13, 30 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I added my three ha'p'orth at Andy Dingley's talk page and won't repeat here. If you look at the number of bridges in Bath capable of taking heavy road traffic in 1905 (just the Old Bridge, Pulteney Bridge (!) and Cleveland Bridge), the need for a strong bridge to serve the new suburbs of Oldfield Park and Twerton is fairly obvious. Johnlp (talk) 21:34, 30 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It really isn't satisfactory to leave this article with such a lot of incorrect information. But when I tried correcting it before, I was immediately reverted, so I'm a bit wary about jumping in again. I'll do so if no one has improved it by this evening. Johnlp (talk) 09:36, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that, that was my mistake. But it also shows the benefit of talk page discussion - I think everyone is in agreement here.
So what do we know and agree on?
  • It wasn't ever a railway bridge
  • Bridge #1 was built here in 1870 to provide road access to this part of town
  • Bridge #2 was built here in 1905. Bridge #1 went to the Destructor crossing.
  • The 1905 bridge is surprisingly robust for a road bridge, but there's no supportable reason why known as yet. Nor do we know definitively why it was replaced.
Andy Dingley (talk) 09:44, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The 1905 rebuild was part of a financial package of £16,400 given by Bath Electric Tramways to Bath Corporation for road improvements in and around the city consequent on the electrification of the tramways (Maggs' book on the tramways provides a reference). The Tramways had permission to build a tramline over the new Midland Bridge, but in fact this was never built: all trams going to and from the south side of the city continued to use the Old Bridge in the town centre right through to their dismantling in 1938-39. I'd be fairly certain the bridge designed by Sanders was the railway bridge leading into Green Park station, the station and bridge being built as a single contract in 1869-70 by the Midland Railway. He may have designed the original road bridge as well, but I have no evidence of that. He certainly didn't design the 1905 bridge as he was well dead by then. Johnlp (talk) 10:09, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've just hunted around for new cites (google and online old newspaper search via B&NES library account) and found nothing new on the origins. Note BathChron John Cambridge obit (cited in article) confirms Tramway Company involvement: "he was given the supervision of building the new Midland Bridge, which the Tramway Company provided for the city". I agree with Andy's 4 point summary above. At some point in the future I'll look at old BathChrons at Bath Central Library and see if that sheds more light. Rwendland (talk) 11:05, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppitz, Leslie (1990). Tramways Remembered-West & South West England. Countryside Books. p. 71. ISBN 978-1853060953. says "Efforts to reach Twerton from Kingsmead Square using the Midland Bridge were halted despite the fact that the bridge was actually built with one track in place. The rails were later taken away."— Rod talk 11:17, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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