Talk:Midnight Oil

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Peter's Left[edit]

Peter's left the Oils. Gee, I feel like the Michael Douglas character in Romancing the Stone when he learned that the Doobie Brothers had broken up. It's the end of an era, I tells ya.


Reference required[edit]

Speculation about censorship of the band's setlist choices for these shows proved to be fruitless as the band played some of their most political hits, including US Forces, When The Generals Talk, The Dead Heart, Blue Sky Mine, and Read About It.

Without a reference this is hearsay and should be removed. 110.174.23.139 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:23, 1 December 2011 (UTC).

POV?[edit]

making a political statement by offering apologies to the Aboriginal people for their alleged suffering during more than 200 years of white settlement.

I don't think there's any dispute concerning the fact that the aboriginals did suffer as a result of colonization. -- Erzengel 13:00 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I entirely agree. Aboriginals were considered barbarians (see Terra Nullius). Their land (with which they identify to a degree most westerners cannot comprehend) was taken away from them (see Mabo). They were and still are second class citizens in their own country. If that's not suffering, please explain to me what suffering is. D.D. 18:17 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Yeah. It might be possible to dispute how much of the blame for the suffering of Aboriginal people was the fault of white colonisers, but that they have suffered would seem to me indisputable. --Robert Merkel 05:50 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Considering that many of the whites were fleeing Religious persecution I would say there was plenty of "suffering" to go around. Hot showers, plentiful food, 200 horsepower chariots .... Caesar should have it as good as downtrodden U.S. Citizens. --user:Mirwin
Why would Caesar have it good as a US citizen in an article about Australia?
I think someone got lost on the way to her/his point. Ghost 16:46, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

No penicillin, immunization, or a stable food supply ... yes, I see how the aboriginals were so much better off before European settlement. Avalon 13:57, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Might be a newsflash to you, but the original British immigrants to this country (1788) lacked all three of these items as well - Penicillin was developed as an antibiotic during the Second World War and Vaccination is mostly a 20th century development... and the difficulties the First Fleet immigrants had in growing crops and raising livestock are also well documented. The Aborigines' problems at the time of colonisation stemmed from the gradual loss of traditional land and cultural heritage, foreign diseases, clashes with colonists, et al. --Staphylococcus 16:07, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
Talk about POV, this whole article reads like a press release for the advocacy for the band's political positions. Obviously these are their positions and beliefs, and the article must reflect this...but not as a cheerleading essay! I was interested in reading about the band, not to yell hooray for their worldview!

Somebody please work on this! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.144.193 (talk) 21:06, 16 April 2008 (UTC)


Although this gets even further off-topic, it's worth pointing out that a significant portion of the non-metropolitain-dwelling Aboriginal population still doesn't have ready access to those three things. Hell, even some of the city dwellers are missing out on the stable food supply part... </off_topic>Ghost 16:46, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

POV issue? What is it that they say that is really controversial -- the questioning of capitalism is about the only controversial thing. The aboriginal peoples were treated with utmost cruelty -- it says a lot about Australia that its artists are allowed to bring out the past and attempt to deal with it. And as for their questioning of capitalism and the US, I will gladly tell you that the latter two are more than capable of defending themselves.--Jackkalpakian 21:56, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Uneven[edit]

Reasonably good article, but doesn't cover their entire career evenly. The earlier albums get anecdotes; the middle and later ones should as well. (Of course, I should contribute, but...) -- Gavin Sinclair

The article is rather poorly structured at the moment, it really would benefit from being broken up into more headings, perhaps encompassing eras of the band... i think its what you might call 'a renovator's dream' in the real estate parlance ;-) ... feel free to tinker with it, or offer suggestions on the talk page --Staphylococcus 16:49, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Expression[edit]

"Burning the midnight oil" and variations means to work late into the night. This is mentioned in the opener, but the expression should have its own page, much like the fourth wall. HereToHelp 21:24, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

"'born again' Christian" remark[edit]

There does not seem any follow-up on this remark in the intro paragraph. any further information? Why and how should this have an impact on his politics? Not all Christians are right-wing, not even all 'born agains'...

--

I don't believe the article's statement here is even correct. Garrett and drummer Rob Hirst (not Jim Moginie) are Christian. Garrett converted, but I'm not sure he's "born again". Nor is this a "revelation"; their beliefs are clearly reflected in the songs credited to Garrett or Hirst (In The Rain, Outbreak of Love, In The Valley, Bedlam Bridge, ...), or see any of Rob's solo work as Ghostwriters. Jkw 02:27, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Agreed - there is no contradiction between being Christian (born-again or not) and being left wing - the christian==right-wing tag may hold (some) value in the US but for the rest of the world it's very much incorrect. --MarkB 12:05, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Does anyone have a source for saying that any members besides Garrett are overtly Christian (i mean, in a public way)... While Garrett's Christianity is well publicised I personally have never heard anything about the other Oils... until someone can come up with something I will remove that entire phrase from there, sounds to me like somebody's a bit biggotted towards Christians in general... edit: Not to mention the fact that a large number of Christian churches in Australia are socially 'left-leaning' concerning most topics, this isn't the Deep South of the USA you know Staphylococcus 22:27, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, I know that two members (Hirst and another memeber, not sure who) sent their children to christian schools. Several friends of mine were mates with them in their younger days, and most of them were practicing christians at that point in their lives. I know that's not irrefutable evidence of any religious beleif, but I beleive that the oils would be for the most part christian. rakkar 11:08, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

My point isn't really whether or not they are religious; I personally don't really care either way. However, as of last week the introduction to the article stated (without reference) that Moginie and Garrett are now both Christians and that this somehow damages their credibility. To quote that version of the article,
... although the band's early status as icons of leftist polemicism has since been undercut by the revelation that both guitarist (and main songwriter) Jim Moginie and singer Peter Garrett are both "born-again" Christians.
My point is that their alleged recent status as Christians cannot be said in itself to indicate some kind of 'right-shift' or 'loss of credibility' on their part, and is certainly not a 'revelation'. What Rakkar has said above certainly confirms this. --Staphylococcus 03:07, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

All Christians are born again, whether they like it or not. I suppose that the term has become to stand for a particular subgroup of Christians, but that usage is not correct. Jesus, the authority on all things Christian, told a Pharisee, Nicodemus, "no one can see the Kingdom of God" unless he is born again," (John 3:3, NIV). Being "born again" simply means that one has had a spiritual re-birth. (All became spiritually dead in the fall, Genesis 2:17). So, a liberal or conservative can both be born again, and must be to be a Christian. As to the article, there is certainly nothing un-Christian about the lyrics of the songs. As a Christian, right-wing, US fan, I found some of their lyrics overly idealistic, but that doesn't mean that they were bad songwriters. Just naive.

Nick Launay[edit]

Nick Launay didn't produce The Church's Seance album. It was produced by the band with John Bee. Launay came in later in a remixing capacity, with results that some fans consider abominable (shades of Specter and Let It Be?). Just thought that needed to be cleared up. Peter1968 06:58, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

why the tag?[edit]

I've tagged it for NPOV errors because, much as I love the Oils, I don't think we should be describing them as "excellent", etc. Also, the "apologise" remark already discussed above. fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 08:37, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

If you can see some major POV problems there, by all means fix them! (or at least make some suggestions here as to what you believe needs to be fixed...) Staphylococcus 23:10, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Why the tag?[edit]

As someone else who loves the Oils I think 'excellent' is apt for a band so talented as to be able to move from a punk/surfer sound in the late '70s to a suburban feel in the early '80s, convey to millions around the world something of the air of the outback ('Diesel and Dust'), create in 'Breathe' a music that was so fresh and original as to render them unidentifiable to music programmers despite 15 years of albums, return in their late 30s in 'Redneck Wonderland' to the unbridled anger and desperation of their youth, and then produce the polished and critically acclaimed 'Capricornia' in the new millenium. The excellence of their lyrics is similarly evident in their ability to routinely raise metaphysical concerns in beery Australian pubs and have the average punter respect them in their stance on many unpopular issues. All that, plus a lead singer whose mettle is so respected as to convince political heavyweights to allow him to parachute into a safe seat in the federal Parliament upon his leaving the band at a creative peak.

Wrong Gary Morris[edit]

There are some links to Gary Morris in this article. I suppose Gary Morris (manager) is not Gary Morris (american country music singer). I don't know how to fix this. --194.251.240.113 14:45, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

I've changed the link, but don't have time to add a new article ATM----Staphylococcus 19:27, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Reconciliation[edit]

As you will noticed, I re-worded the text of the article (it was quite a minor edit, but I did not mark it as such) to promote a NPOV. As such, I have deleted the NPOV Dispute tag. The article currently contains the following text, which I think deserves deletion.

Many Australians believed the refusal to say 'sorry' was cynically motivated by conservative fears that an apology might be construed as an admission of liability and could trigger a rush of land rights and financial compensation claims by Aboriginal people.

Aside from the fact that this is Weasel Wording: see Wikipedia:Avoid_weasel_words, it is highly inappropriate for an article about Midnight Oil. A link to the page on Australian reconciliation would suffice (if even that is necessary). I will do it myself, but I thought I would bring it up here with my reasons for 24 hours before doing it. Jaems 01:50, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I left it for two days and nobody has objected, so I have made the changes. Thanks, Jaems 02:35, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Question[edit]

Is the song "Whoah" on "Diesel and Dust" the lyrics are "The Lord is my temple, God is by my side". The article mentions the band's "overt left-wing political activism" but doesn't tell anything about their attitude towards relegion. Being left-winged often coincides with not being religious. Thus my question: Are their religious lyrics serious or rather ironic?

Ok. Reading first and asking questions then would be the better order. I just noticed that there has already been discussion about them being christian or not above.
I'm not from the US but from Europe and me too I'd still say that being left-winged often coincides with not being religious but not inevitably so.
It's an interesting song - it is actually about nuclear brinksmanship of the 80's. "Andropovosphere" is derived from Yuri Andropov, a Soviet leader. The "man with a landslide" is Ronald Reagan, referring to an election victory, and West Point is a military academy in New York. Read an interpretation at the Powderworkers site as well as the lyrics available at Midnight Oil's Website to see how it fits in. - Staphylococcus 07:29, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Clarification of lyrics (10, 9, 8, 7, 6, ......)[edit]

Slight clarification of lyrics in "Short Memory". The song is not just about the U.S., it also refers to historical oppression of third world populations by a number of other governments; Soviets, Belgian, English, South African, -All are included.

It's one of my favorite Oil songs by the way.

Martee 99. 08/23/2006

Flat Chat[edit]

Thursday, 26th of October, 2006. An advertisement appeared for 'Flat Chat' on TV in Sydney.

Genre's[edit]

Added Political rock to the Genre's even though it isn't an official wiki music genre I think it should be noted. If anyone can find an official wiki genre for this then please fix it. The only other well known bands that would fall into this genre would be the The Clash and the Manic Street Preachers. --Mutley 14:01, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit]

Anyone got a picture of Midnight Oils 'hand' logo that could be used. I think it would be beneficial to the article, and I am trying to make a midnight oil userbox, and it would be great for that too. Thanks, This hath been created and/or edited in the divine wisdom of The Overlord of Doom. 06:57, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Burning Beds 2004 (DJ Chaos Breakbeat Remix)?[edit]

This is circulating on various file sharing programs, and on various electronic radio channels, but there is not much information on this besides the fact it's by Midnight Oil Vs. DJ Fixx,was this authorized by the band? Can someone give more information on this?--4.154.245.232 19:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Beds Are Burning.jpg[edit]

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Image:Beds Are Burning.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 02:14, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Beds Are Burning.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:Beds Are Burning.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 04:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

NPOV issues[edit]

I don't want to butcher this article in order to remove the biased statements, so I've tagged the article as NPOV until an editor on this article can fix them. A few examples are: The band was known for its driving hard rock sound, intense live performances... and ...featuring the twin-guitar attack of Moginie and Rotsey, the drumming and vocals of drummer Rob Hirst and the manic, whirling-dervish presence of their towering, bald lead singer Peter Garrett.... The KZA 04:28, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Not really sure I see any real serious NPOV in the statements you've cited. Poetic licence, yes; but the band does have two guitars, and there's no denying that Peter Garrett is tall at 6' 4" and bald. Are there other instances in the article that someone feels is not NPOV?Joe JJC 02:34, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Agree with Joe. It's not so much POV as simply unencyclopedic in tone - more suited to a music mag. Just needs a copyedit. The info itself is not a problem, rather the way it is presented and words chosen is. --Merbabu 00:39, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I have listened to them for years, and I cannot be described as sharing their perspective. I think that it is inevitable that anyone that writes about MO will be moved positively or negatively by the tone of their message. I like listening to them precisely because I do not share their POV, and I enjoy being made to think -- wasn't that the point of art.--Jackkalpakian 21:52, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Have made a number of revisions, tried to remove or moderate some of the POV stuff and reorganised material under new headings. Hope this makes it a bit easier to read. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Onamission2000 (talkcontribs) 04:45, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Major editing proposed[edit]

Despite the above ratings of B-class, the article has numerous unresolved issues including References (I count only 3 poorly formatted refs) and WP:NPOV tone. I intend undertaking major editing of this article: I aim to include more independent in-line references and will try to neutralise some of the tone. Interim edits may look unorganised and unfinished, the whole process is expected to take at least a week. I intend starting by beefing up the Lead section: it should summarise the entire article and currently does not. I will then tackle various sections and subsequently re-organise the discography section (possibly creating a separate article if I can).Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:14, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I've had a go at my proposed major editing, supplied more information, added in-line references, tried to improve the tone by giving other sides to contentious issues e.g. Countdown non-appearance and the Oils dealings with indigenous groups from "The Dead Heart" to "Truganini" and "Beds Are Burning" to wearing the SORRY T-shirts.
I'm not entirely pleased with my copyediting - it will probably need some paring down and rewording but will leave that for other editors. I believe that it is now a B-class article. I haven't completely re-organised the discography section, again, another editor can have a go at either reformatting the albums/eps into a wikitable or creating a separate discography article if they wish. The Oils albums charted in European, US and UK charts but this is not reflected in the discography section.Shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:34, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

The sixth oil[edit]

I just redlinked Gary Morris (manager) because I know who he is. I was going suggest he was like a fifth beatle, someone beat me to that analogy. Can someone help to confirm his notability by starting the article, The Sixth Oil and the refs here seem to do just that. I have never contributed to a music article before tonight, would the disambiguation 'manager' be appropriate? cygnis insignis 16:59, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Discography FLC[edit]

The Midnight Oil discography is up for FLC. Visit here to leave comments, with thanks k-i-a-c (hitmeup - the past) 10:47, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

king of the mountain[edit]

no mention of this song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuC_k51NUqU

its one of the hits in Australia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.200.37.58 (talk) 08:39, 23 July 2013 (UTC)