Talk:Military tactics

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was to move this page


Tannar vandalized this page, i cannot fix it...Admin help!75.46.187.197 00:09, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Military tacticMilitary tactics — This is about the subject of tactics, not about a tactic. Michael Z. 2005-12-28 17:32 Z

Voting[edit]

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
  • Support—my request. Michael Z. 2005-12-28 17:34 Z
  • support, totally non-controversial. --Irpen 17:35, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. Olessi 19:52, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
  • Support. -ryan-d 05:13, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
  • support, totally non-controversial. Gronky 13:14, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Operations[edit]

The current article seems to get a couple of things not quite right:

"Military tactics is the collective name for methods of engaging and defeating an enemy in battle."

I think tactics is a subject, not simply the plural form of the noun tactic.

"In current military thought, tactics comprise the operational use of forces in a particular combat situation."

Are not tactical, operational, and strategic the three discrete levels of military thinking? See operational art, operational warfare, military strategy Michael Z. 2006-01-1 18:36 Z

Yes, I agree. I'll make a minor change to that effect.RDT2 14:05, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

What's missing?[edit]

When I look at the list of military tactics, I see a good candidate for what could be included on this page. Each of the sections on the listing page could easily be a separate discussion on the military tactics page, expanding on the subject according to the list content. Why keep them separate? — RJH (talk) 16:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe this article is in fact to much like a list. There’s already a list of military tactic page. If I want to know what a specific military tactic is, I’m going to go on that page. This should be a general explication of what a Military tactic is. I know it would be much shorter, but right now it is way too descriptive and as no guiding line. It would be interesting to have a description of the word tactical as an adjective (ex: Tactical vest, tactical light, tactical team etc). What make such object Tactical?

for Overwhelming Force, it can also be applied if the attacker is able to mobilize or shift his forces to a point faster than his counterpart can response (something the German seem to do very well in attack was mobility). it therefore requires either superior numbers or superior speed. 218.186.9.3 16:39, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

UMT: Hit and Run[edit]

The last paragraph just doesn't feel right:

"While many people do not realize this, hit and run tactics are very useful for armies of large nature also."

Doesn't seem quite neutral; maybe reworded to:

"Though not obvious, hit and run tactics can be very useful for armies of large nature also."

However, I must take issue with the following:

"...small groups of raiders with demolitions and other "exotic" weaponry (such as Punji sticks) can destroy well fortified positions..."

The use of explosives is fine, but how is placing sharpened sticks around a stronghold going to defeat it for you? It appears the previous editor doesn't understand what a Punji stick actually is - it would limit the enemies' movement outside of their defensive positions, but the point of a defensive stronghold is a position that you remain within. Other 'exotic methods' I could suggest for inclusion here would be 'shoot and scoot' bombardment with small, man-portable mortars, sniping of officers and defensive personnel in general to reduce defensive readiness (they're busy hiding instead of manning the ramparts), or even undermining via tunnels.

Anyhow, before I just step right in and revise this, I'd like to get other people's ideas and opinions - whaddy'all think? Empath 21:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, please do revise it. The Punji stick comment struck me as inappropriate as well, but I'm not versed enough to be able to replace it with something more productive. As I try to point out below, the article is full of these type of inaccuracies, really driving its quality down to anyone with even basic knowledge. An article shouldn't simply assert "can destroy" but should detail how the use of tactics would actually make a difference. Otherwise, it's just saying, basically, that 'tactics exist for guerilla warfare' - not very insightful. Tofof 16:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup needed[edit]

A request was put on the WP:Cleanup page to remove the 2nd person, so I've done that, though the tone problems also discussed there are still very present. I'm willing to help if we come to a consensus on how to solve the article's tone problems. -KingPenguin 15:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

As best as I can determine, the tone feels so wrong because it is very informal. Most of this article's information is very basic, there's no 'expert' voice anywhere in it. Phrases like "second to encirclement", "he or she" (in reference to 'the defender'), use of the plural "they", and the reliance on citing a single 'famous' example for each subject all make it read like a high-school essay, not an encyclopedia article. In reviewing further, I'd assert that there's an overuse of simple declarative statements without further elaboration (e.g. "These tactics are also called 'Guerrilla Tactics'.") as well as an overuse of the verb "be", especially in the conditional "can be" tense ("can be especially effective" "can also be used" "It could be said that" appear in just one four-sentence section) The reliance on "can be" weakens the entire article. Tofof 16:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Did some General write this? It's pretty opinionated Samrsharma 18:14, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

"break" is misspelled consistently in the pictured. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.1.44.180 (talk) 05:59, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Dreadful page in need of radical action[edit]

This really is a terrible page. Many of the items listed are not genuine tactics at all - just because it's "a good idea" to surround the enemy doesn't make it a tactic. There is no single "line tactic". The article lacks any foundation in history or military science.

Given that tactics change over time and with differences in weapons and situations, no single article is going to be able to list them all. If this article is to exist, it should be a general discussion of the nature and purpose of tactics. Specifics need to go in more specific articles, eg Napoleonic infantry tactics or World War I Artillery Tactics. Cyclopaedic 19:17, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I've read the article again and I can't stand it. The introduction is pretty good, but it then degenerates into a list of "good ideas" that make a mockery of the subject. The article would be better if this material (which is entirely unreferenced) were removed, so I'm going to delete it. Cyclopaedic 19:48, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

supressive fire[edit]

Is suppresive fire really a tactic. At best it is a technique, which when combined with other techniques, might constitute a portion of a tactic.

Suppressive fire is a technique used to keep someone's head down. By itself, e.g. without movement or destructive fire it achieves little.

In my opinion tactics have a dynamic element, an element of movement, mere application of fire by itself is not imo a tatic.

Or am I too much a slave to my national (Australian) doctrine in this judgement? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.49.168.228 (talk) 03:57, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Article revised?[edit]

Reading the above comments, I was mystified to some extent. Has the original article been completely redone since the last entry in the debate, or..?

Anyways, as it stands now, the article does little other than to clarify the hierarchy of military planning somewhat. I would've liked some words on the concerns of the three levels, if for nothing else, then to have somewhere to point my thumb: ("Look, we're talking tactics, right? You're on the operational level, there... And Wiki says so, too!")  ;)

Something to the effect of: "Tactics have the most limited scope of the three levels of planning and execution: If strategy defines the goal and OF the means, then tactics defines the method by which these means are applied to achieve that goal."

If that makes any sense. Smolk (talk) 01:52, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

References? Sources? Citations?[edit]

Hi all, IMHO this is an important article as it defines a key concept in military doctrine. However, I was unable to find verifiable references in it, and even less, relevant inline citations. I'll add the appropriate tag to facilitate the task of referencing it; and will try to find sources myself.
I'll also try to give a bit of structure to the article, so it's more "readable".
Kind regards, DPdH (talk) 06:35, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

This pagespace deserves some wikilove, agreed. BusterD (talk) 12:13, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

props[edit]

this page is awesome, good work everyonemakeswell 14:18, 9 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Makeswell (talkcontribs)

Redirection of "Tactical" to this page?[edit]

Hello - The name "Tactical" is currently being used by the page Tactical, which is for an album by a death metal band called World Under Blood. I posed the question on the album's article's talk page of whether we should rename that page to "Tactical (album)" or something like that, and have the phrase "Tactical" redirect to this page, which is what I believe the majority of WP users are intending when they use that phrase. Any thoughts on this? KConWiki (talk) 12:37, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

I am cleaning up some of these now, but here is an example of an instance where an article about a military operation inadvertently linked to the article for the album. KConWiki (talk) 12:42, 29 June 2013 (UTC)