Talk:Minas Gerais

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The meaning of "Gerais"[edit]

AFAIK, the word "Gerais" used to mean "state-owned" or "related to the State" in ancient portuguese. Thus the parliament of some kingdoms were called "Estados Gerais" (in which "estados" mean social classes, like clergy, military and commons). Therefore, "Minas Gerais" would mean the "Mines of the Realm". This is the explanation I was taught both at school (I am Brazilian and AM from Minas Gerais) and the college (I got a degree on History). Sadly, I have no link ready to prove my point, so I just comment here.jggouvea (talk) 15:05, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Disputed[edit]

Hello,so,i have been looking at here and i have noticed that both the flag (coloration of the red in the triangle noticeably un-accurate.) and coat of arms(completely wrong,for whatever reason the oldest & #1 file was almost 100% correct while all others where outright plain wrong.) here arent exactly very accurate....someone,please correct ?Should we just use the images there until someone can make a higher resolution one?what do you all think ?Also,if someone can please find/make a suitable warning at the front of the article to draw more attention to the subject,please do so!(Ok,so i have placed the most suitable warning i could find,if you can find a better one please feel free to place it there instead,but anyways i think a blatantly wrong coat of arms/flag is enough to adress that.)

Thanks.


—Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.59.186.56 (talk) 19:12, 15 March 2010 (UTC)



Thanks for adding this article, 200.20.117.66. It's great to see another user interested in Brazilian history!

I encourage you to get a user name and look forward to working with you on articles pertaining to Brazil.

172


I added a bit about emigration from Minas Gerais to the US, particularly Eastern Massachusetts (Boston) at the end of the economy section. It strikes me as quite important - tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of people from Minas have moved to the Boston area, and are the dominant illegal immigrant population

Merger of data from Minas dos Matos Gerais[edit]

On 8 January 2006, User:Big Adamsky suggested that that the information from the article Minas dos Matos Gerais be merged into Minas Gerais. Given the size of the current article and its potential for growth, I think that it would be better to merge the material from Minas dos Matos Gerais and the data from the History section of Minas Gerais into a new artcile History of Minas Gerais, leaving just a summary of the history in the main article. What do you all think? Signed: Bejnar 18:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Pronouciation[edit]

Does the standart pronounciation of Minas Gerais really is ˌminɐzʒeˈɾajs? I was born in Belo Horizonte and my pronounciation is more like ˌminɐʒeˈɾajs, I've tested with my mother and other friends and the result was the same. Does a non mineiro Brazilian pronouce it otherwise? Bruno Gripp 22:56, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I have lived in BH for most of my life, and also in Divinópolis, and I don't remember hearing anyone drop the /z/. Macgreco 01:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Translation[edit]

The name Minas Gerais comes from a more complex context than the translation "General Mines" tries to capture, in disregard to the two large geographical spaces which conformed the state in its history: the region of the mines (Minas), and the region of the Gerais (or "Campos Gerais", which means something close to "General Fields"). These corresponded to the areas of Sertão which were farther and hard to access (with an economy based on farming and agriculture) from the mining spots (whose economic space was urban from its origin). The confusion comes from the fact that the term "Gerais" is taken as an adjective to "Minas", although it refers to the region called Gerais (as a noun). A further complication is that this is not a well defined area on the map of the state, but rather a designation to these parts outside the mining spots, more related to the geography of Sertão, and more isolated from the state's nucleus. Guimarães Rosa's literature is highly situated in the Gerais, and they serve as an example of a space which is widespread (hence the term General) across the state (although more concentrated in its north) rather than neatly delimited and identifiable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.59.178.159 (talk) 19:47, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I've added an extended version of the paragraph above to the article, in the History section. I've sent it to a couple of experts on the history of MG to improve it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.164.255.201 (talk) 03:05, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

re accuracy dispute[edit]

If the flag is inaccurate (and editors are in agreement) then it should be removed. I will do this. Is this version ok http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/7/76/20100202010743%21Brasao_Estado_MinasGerais_Brasil4.svg

If the flags are ok the please replace, remove the disputed tag, but also link to a reliable proof. Thanks.Imgaril (talk) 21:00, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Insignia: Flag and Coat of Arms[edit]

I have reinstated on the page the insignia most accurately reflecting the presentation on the government website ([http://www.mg.gov.br/governomg/portal/m/governomg/conheca-minas/5661-nossos-simbolos/5146/5044 Governo do Estado de Minas Gerais => Nossos símbolos). Oalexander-En (talk) 03:36, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

File:Bhcity2.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion[edit]

Image-x-generic.svg An image used in this article, File:Bhcity2.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
What should I do?

Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.

  • If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use)
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  • If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Commons Undeletion Request

This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 07:59, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Itamar Franco[edit]

Former president Itamar Franco wasn't born in Minas Gerais, but in a ship in the Atlantic Ocean, near Bahia. I'm not sure we can say he was born in Bahia, as I don't know if the sea can be consider part of the state's territory, but there is no doubt he wasn't born in Minas (it is a landlock state!) and must be excluded from the list of famous people born here. Anyway, instead of just removing him from the article, I explained his situation, as he is almost allways recognized as a "mineiro". 189.119.69.197 (talk) 05:47, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Differing national ranking of Belo Horizonte's urban agglomeration[edit]

I noticed a discrepancy between the lead sections of the articles on Belo Horizonte and Minas Gerais. I have extracted two statements from each of those articles (slightly modified for a more direct comparison):

  • From the Belo Horizonte article: Belo Horizonte is the sixth most populous city in the country. However the city's metropolitan area is [the] home of 5.15 million inhabitants excluding the Metropolitan Attach or the Expanded Metropolitan Area which adds more than 650,000 people, making it the third most populous urban agglomeration in Brazil.
  • From the Minas Gerais article: Belo Horizonte is the sixth largest urban agglomeration in Brazil. Its metropolitan area is the third largest in Brazil.

I am not addressing the unnecessary complexity (or poor grammar) of the first of those two, but I would suggest simplification. I am concerned here with the factual discrepancy between the rank as 3rd and the rank as 6th largest urban agglomeration in Brazil.

Both articles make the same point: When comparing city populations, the City of Belo Horizonte is the sixth largest in Brazil, but in a comparison based on populations of the larger metropolitan areas, "Greater Belo Horizonte"[1] is the third largest in Brazil. They also agree on the national ranking of both figures, so I will assume that those rankings are correct. But they differ in their stated national rank for the urban agglomeration. Alternatively, this can be viewed as a difference in the meaning of the term urban agglomeration as used by each article. This isn't Wikipedia's or even my biggest issue currently, but in noting the discrepancy, I was less trusting of other data from these articles. I am not familiar with the specific term urban agglomeration in any precise sense, but it sounds like it should have a definition sufficient to preclude the wide uncertainty between 3rd and 6th largest in Brazil.

I do not speak Portuguese, have never been to Brazil, and my only personal familiarity with anything about Brazil starts and ends with the fourteen World Cups held during my lifetime (soon to be fifteen, explaining my sudden interest in this city). So I cannot gauge the Brazilian popularity or familiarity with the term urban agglomeration (for example the likelihood it would be restored by other editors if removal). Without that knowledge, I don't know if case (d) below (drop the term completely from both articles) is suitable and appropriate. If the term is to be retained, then I ask those more competent and qualified than me (that is everybody) if there is a sufficiently precise definition of the term urban agglomeration as it is used in Brazil by reliable sources, which would lead to one of the four cases enumerated below.

  • (a) An urban agglomeration is similar in scope (population size) to a metropolitan area, which would make Belo Horizonte the nation's third largest, and necessitating a corresponding change in the lead of the Minas Gerais article.
  • (b) An urban agglomeration is more nearly representative of just the municipal city at its core in population terms, making this one the sixth largest in Brazil, and necessitating a corresponding change in the lead of the Belo Horizonte article.
  • (c) An urban agglomeration is representative of neither the larger metropolitan area of case (a), nor the smaller municipal city of case (b). If the term is to be retained, then the size of this and several other large urban agglomerations in Brazil would need to be separately determined, and ranked accordingly. Alternatively the term could be removed, as described for case (d) below. Either way, the lead of both articles will need to be modified.
  • (d) An urban agglomeration is not sufficiently well defined, the term or its definition is insufficiently common, or continued use of the term in either articles is undesirable. In these circumstances, urban agglomeration will be removed, and both articles will require modification, stating that the metropolitan area of Greater Belo Horizonte[1] is the third largest such area in the country, but that the municipal city of Belo Horizonte that it contains is the sixth city in Brazil. in the nation.

Notes[edit]

[1] I do not know if Greater Belo Horizonte is a term in common use, and if so, whether it applies to the precise metropolitan area that is ranked third largest in Brazil.

[2] I came to these pages to verify Belo Horizonte's time zone (in preparation for remote TV viewing on 24 June 2014). I didn't see it mentioned in either article, whereas other cities in Brazil do show their time zone in their infobox.

With thanks from ChrisJBenson (talk) 15:23, 14 February 2014 (UTC)