Talk:Lo bah png

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Food and Drink task list:

To edit this page, select here

Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Food and drink:

Help bring these Top Importance articles currently B Status or below up to GA status: Agaricus bisporus (i.e. mushroom), Beef, Bread, Curry, Drink, Food, Ham and eggs, Soy sauce, Sushi, Yogurt
Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Beer, French cuisine, Sugar
Bring these High Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Apple, Burger King, Fish
Participate in project-related deletion discussions.
Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this.
Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here.
Provide photographs and images for Category:Wikipedia requested images of food
Consider joining this project's Assessment task force. List any project ideas in this section

Note: These lists are transcluded from the project's tasks pages.

Taiwan Low‑importance

	Taiwan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Taiwan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Taiwan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TaiwanWikipedia:WikiProject TaiwanTemplate:WikiProject TaiwanTaiwan articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

References? Original research?[edit]

It's important to give references for the information here (and in any other article you create). For example, if there has been a 'fierce debate' in Taiwan about Minced Pork Rice, we want to know where. It could be evidence of notability.
Also the section on etymology sounds like original research by you. You should only include research and conclusions that have been made in authoritative sources elsewhere.
On a minor point, this is the English language Wikipedia so it may be better to have an external link to a recipe in the English language. Sionk (talk) 14:09, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Minced pork rice. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141129072915/http://www.justafoodblog.com/taiwanese-braised-pork-rice/ to http://www.justafoodblog.com/taiwanese-braised-pork-rice/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:43, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Taiwanese?[edit]

@Jjj84206: The 2nd paragraph clearly states that it likely came from Southern Fujian ("minced pork rice was brought to Taiwan by Fujianese immigrants"), with sources, so I don’t think the "Taiwanese" label belongs in the lead. Please undo your reversion of my edit. Phlar (talk) 04:35, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Phlar: Thanks for your edits. However, I'd like to point out that citation 3, 4, or 5, nowhere does it mention that the dish came from Fujian. I also would like to mention that these citations are blog posts/recipes. These are NOT reliable sources or experts/historians. For example, citation 3 mentions that Minced Pork Rice resembles those in Fujian, then citation 4 and 5 immediately uses 3 (which is unrealiable to begin with) that Minced Pork Rice is likely from China. I suspect the prior editors were forcibly making connections to China.

You'll notice that 滷肉飯 is different from 魯肉飯 (where 魯 represents China's Shandong province, and that's likely where it came from). But this is a different dish that was created in Taiwan. Time and time again, I've seen many Taiwanese or other food being called "Chinese" origin just because China has a province that serves it. This is very irresponsible editing. Just because China serves it doesn't make the dish "originate from China". In that case, are you going to call Spaghetti Chinese since it's made of noodles? Are you going to call Ramen Chinese? China has a lot of population/land/rich history, saying everything is from China is unfair and not accurate. Are you suggesting Pho should be Chinese too? Just because China consumes it in ancient China, does NOT make it Chinese. Just because China has something similar does not make it Chinese. The Minced Pork Rice back in ancient China or in current Fujian is different from the ones currently in Taiwan - and there's no denial that when you talk about Minced Pork Rice - everyone is referring to the Taiwanese one. I have never seen or heard of something called Fujian Minced Pork Rice. In western countries, only Taiwanese restaurants sell Minced Pork Rice, not Chinese.Jjj84206 (talk) 05:27, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jjj84206:: You might be right, but this isn’t what the body of the article says. The MOS:LEAD should summarize the content of the article and definitely should not contradict it. As they stand now, the Origin and Etymology sections both imply that the dish originated in the Zhou Dynasty, which ended more than a thousand years before Han people settled in Taiwan, and the latter section describes the controversy over the dish’s origin. Claiming in the lead that the dish is Taiwanese contradicts the body text and gives undue weight to one side of the controversy. If you must have “Taiwanese” in the lead, how about "…a rice dish, possibly of Taiwanese origin, that is commonly seen throughout Taiwan and Southern Fujian"? Phlar (talk) 13:39, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Phlar: I don't see any source for the Zhou dynasty thing. You also questioned where this source is from. I don't think it's a reliable source either. Also, Zhou dynasty is thousand of years ago. There's no way someone can assertively say that Minced Pork rice originates in this era. Minced Pork rice, even if it exists at that time, will be very different from the ones today. You can only say Minced Pork Rice originates from Zhou Dynasty, if over the course of history, you find evidence that the Zhou Dynasty Minced Pork Rice slowly develops to the ones we see in Taiwan today. If there's no continuity, then you can't say that. Like I mentioned, noodles were once created by Chinese long time ago, but that doesn't mean ramen, spaghetti, pho, beef noodles soup, instant noodles...etc, are all built off the ancient Chinese noodles.

Ultimately, Minced Pork rice is very easy to make. You simply make rice and add meat sauce. However, when people refer to Minced Pork Rice, they most likely refer it as the Taiwanese one since it's the dominant form and whats most famous of. And it's true that it's created by Taiwanese street vendors. The name coined as Minced Pork Rice is also made by Taiwan (滷肉飯). Other countries or China may have something similar but they call it other things (肉燥飯) among others. I'm also trying to be consistent with the Chinese Wikipedia page.

@Jjj84206: Everything you're claiming might be true, I'm not arguing that point. But the fact is, the "Taiwanese" claim in the lead contradicts the ambiguity and controversy described in the body text. If you want to keep the lead as it is, then you've got to edit/improve the body to support this. Phlar (talk) 15:36, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jjj84206: OK, I just realized that this sentence read "...a Chinese rice dish..." for years until two weeks ago when you changed it to "...a Taiwanese rice dish...." You provided no source (and no edit summary, incidentally) for this change. I am going to revert it back to "Chinese" per WP:BRD, although I think omitting both "Chinese" and "Taiwanese" from this sentence would be a good compromise. Phlar (talk) 19:36, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Phlar: This page was "Taiwanese" before someone changed it without any reference, so under your argument above, I can say the same. I'm going to leave it as no origin for now until I have time to add in more sources. But do note all other Wikipedia pages refers this as Taiwanese dish. You also did agree with all my points above that this is a Taiwanese dish, yet you unilaterally changed it back to Chinese - seems like a very politically motivated edit on your part.