Talk:Monarch

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Comment[edit]

I think brazilian monarchs descendents still use the title "Príncipe(prince) of Brazil", even tho nobody considers them princes.187.20.222.160 (talk) 18:29, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

31. European Principalities[edit]

It is stated that there currently are two principalities in Europe, presumably Monaco and Lichtenstein. There is also. of course, Wales, which as part of the UK is a special case. In German there is a distinction between a ruling prince (Fürst) and another royal with the princely title (Prinz), and, in spite of the territorial connexion, the Prince of Wales is regarded as the latter (Prinz von Wales). Shulgi (talk) 01:04, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

As far as I know that is not exactly the case. Prince of Wales was adopted at an uncertain date, probably in the 16th century, and spuriously, and so really doesn't mean Prince of Wales because it was not inherited or even gained by conquest from the ancient Welsh royal family. Wales was conquered but the style was not adopted then. The English and Scots really did things their own way and their titles sometimes don't mean what one would expect. Another peculiar one is Lord of the Isles, deriving from the Norse-Gaelic title of 1st millennium origin Innse Gall or King of the Isles. Because Lord is translated into the Gaelic Tiarna or Flaith, not , no king of Scotland or England has ever been King of the Isles, the traditional title. This was last held by the grandfather or great-grandfather of the downgraded Lord (Tiarna) of the Isles who lost his inheritance to the Scottish Crown. Probably I should point all this out in that article for the benefit of humanity but I am too lazy and also don't want to start a fight. DinDraithou (talk) 02:10, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

King, Kingdom[edit]

King and Kingdom direct here, shouldn't they have their own article? All other monarchical titles have their own article. 98.206.155.53 (talk) 07:26, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Svein, King of Norway[edit]

See Talk:Svein, King of Norway#Post move discussion. There is arguement about this man status as King. The arguement is also about what defines a king?--Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy (talk) 05:38, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Monarch, Defined[edit]

Define Monarch; A Monarch (Mon-Arch) is a human-being (mon of Mon-Arch) who has an area of land which the monarch arches (Arch of Mon-Arch) over; The land area is a majesty. The Majesty belongs to the Monarch. The Monarch was chosen as a KING/Queen due to their proven achievements to build and provide essential accommodations for humanity while preserving nature and the entities outside of humanity, such as wild life. EXAMPLE: The King of Egypt built pryamids to archive spiritual information showing the need to preserve existence, while finding ways to build and accommdate the people with the NILE (canal) so that people had water. Lines of KINGS and/or Queens were set-out from the caucacian region of the globe, to establish ways of improving-upon existence (to include the defense and maintenance thereof) while forming constituted and civil ways of life. Each Monarch established a separate Majesty, unique-and-thus-different from far east influences. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.102.70.80 (talk) 04:27, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Uh oh... FactStraight (talk) 21:37, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Sovereign Viceroys and Barons?[edit]

The chart of monarchical titles includes Viceroy and Baron. Are there any historical examples of Viceroys/Vicereines and Barons/Baronesses who were monarchs with sovereignty over a state? My understanding is that a Viceroy represents a King/Queen (or other monarch) -- and so might wield all the power of the monarch, but always deriving from and in that monarch's name, never in his/her own right.

Sovereign baronies could well have existed, like sovereign counties, etc. Are there any examples that could be cited? DanTrent (talk) 17:20, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

Prince as default title?[edit]

Added {{Citation needed}} tag to the assertion that the "normal" European monarch title is prince or princess. If no one can source this, it should be removed. 24.56.23.240 (talk) 12:59, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

"Prince" is the generic title for a European sovereign, and I have provided a citation for that usage. It was never the "normal", prevalent or default title for a sovereign, so I have deleted the claim that it was. FactStraight (talk) 10:34, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I noticed this also. Perhaps what was meant to be said was that in some times past it was -- by far -- the most common rank (title) for a monarch. For example. in 1648 at the time of the Treaty of Westphalia, the most common of the resulting sovereign states (in the several hundred) were principalities, ruled by princes. By the end of the Empire (HRE) in 1806, the most common type of realm of the 360 or so States at the time were principalities, ruled by princes. Also, when the Indian subcontinent was under the British Empire, the very vast majority of the States (on the order of 650 or so, if I remember correctly) were principalities, rules by princes. Further going back in time somewhat to around 1350 through to about 1450 or even after, the vast majority of States in what became the Russian Empire were principalities, ruled over by princes. From about 1300 through to at least 1800 the most common rank for a monarch was -- by far -- that of Prince. Obviously today, there are but about a handful of modern States still ruled by princes (even counting emirates as being principalities). So any statement about which rank or title was most common for a monarch is greatly dependent on what historical period (and to some extent what geographical region of the world) is in view. --L.Smithfield (talk) 22:11, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
In 1648 most of those whose territories were a Reichsstand in the Holy Roman Empire were counts, not princes: even those who would head sovereign principalities until 1918, the rulers of Lippe, Reuss and Waldeck, were not yet princes in 1648, while most of the higher-ranking rulers reigned under a title other than prince (Austria - Archduke, Baden - Margrave, Bavaria - Duke, Brunswick/Hanover - Duke, Hesse - Landgrave, the Rhineland -- Count Palatine, Prussia -- Duke or Margrave, Saxony - Duke, Wurttemberg - Duke, etc.): nearly the only exception among these was Anhalt, which was indeed ruled by a prince -- but exchanged that title for Duke, as did the Nassaus, in the early 19th century. At the 1806 mediatization of scores of German rulers, most were Imperial counts (Reichsgrafen), not princes. Afterward, Europe had more ruling dukes (Anhalt, Brunswick, Nassau and the Ernestine duchies) and granddukes (Baden, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Mecklenburg-Strelitz, Hesse and the Rhine, Luxembourg, Saxe-Weimar) than it had sovereigns titled "Prince". Russia's Rurikids had lost their sovereignty by 1648 and when they ruled Rus by the dozens as "princes" (Knyaz), that title was rare in Western Europe. "Prince" was used generically to describe the rulers of India in the 19th century, but they had widely varying individual titles as rulers, just as did Europe. So I cannot agree that "prince" was ever "the most common" title for a sovereign although, as I said previously, it was the most common generic term for hereditary rulers. FactStraight (talk) 01:56, 21 August 2014 (UTC)