Talk:Monster Manual

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Monster differences[edit]

Would like a list of changes to some creatures made in different editions, such as 3rd edition changes from 2nd edition.

Artists & Fair Use[edit]

Does anyone know the names of the artists for the original Monster Manual? I'd like to add them to the article. I know "David C. Sutherland III" was one, but I can't recall the others (I think Erol Otus did one illustration).

Also, I found several images of the cover of the manual on the Internet that could be added to the article. I know that a photo of the cover is covered under "fair use," but I don't think we can just lift images off of websites without permission, even though what the photo is of we can include. Anyone know more about this? —Frecklefoot 16:46, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, there were several different artists. I think they were credited at the back of the book.
For the cover probably the best way to go would be to have someone scan it. Someone here's bound to have a copy I think (although mine's lost, unfortunately). - Hephæstos|§ 16:56, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I know there were several artists. DCSIII was the only one I remember. The other guy had the initials "DAT," something like "D.A. Trampier" or some such thing (of course we'd need to correctly spelled name for the article). There may have been one or more incidental artists (like Erol Otis), but I know DCS and DAT did most of the artwork.

As far as the cover goes, I was hoping that we could just use one that is already out there. If someone has a copy, great, let's a scan. But my copy is long gone. —Frecklefoot 19:23, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I have a scannble copy, just been dragging feet on image uploading until the combined flames of server hell (10th level, ruled by Rebbiv Noirb) and image markup hell subside. Stan 19:38, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Woo-hoo! Can you also find the names of the artists? I think one or two scans of a few of the interior illustrations would also fall under "fair use." My favorite, IIRC, is the "Pseudo Dragon." :) —Frecklefoot 19:51, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

This is a nice image from an eBay listing. What permissions would we need to use it? there's no creative presentation or interpretation there, just a scan.... Catherine 20:11, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, I know it is just a scan. Since it is an eBay listing, it probably would incur less trouble than something from a permanent web site. But if you look up the full-size image (Monster Manual cover), it is actually kinda crappy. I mean, that book is beat up. If Stan's copy is in better condition, I'd vote to use his scan (when he gets around to it). What do you say, Stan? Is your copy in better condition? —Frecklefoot 21:04, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Almost mint condition, ahem. (Acquired a bunch of D&D material in the early 80s, but never actually played much.) Not one of the rare editions though, oh well. Stan 23:01, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Rare editions? As long as it has the cheesy are on the cover (complete with the neckless red dragon--see the link in my above post), that's all we need. :-) —Frecklefoot 23:05, 11 Feb 2004 (UTC)

An actual first edition is monetarily valuable, but mine is a "4th Edition, August 1979" according to the title page. At some point somebody should go through and elucidate the various editions of the first manual, it's apparently a little complicated from what I remember seeing on some website. Stan 14:15, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I see. Mine was pre-4th edition, but probably not a true first edition since I got into D&D pretty late (compared to my friends). Mine didn't have the little wizard in the bottom right corner and I remember that was an artifact of later editions. Aside from that, I couldn't tell the difference. You'd think they would have at least replaced the dreadful cover! :-) Thanks for posting that image. The only change I made was to format the image so the caption showed. —Frecklefoot 18:18, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I have a actual 1st Edition; the one from 1977 that is up here is a 5th, not a 1st. Would be happy to provide a scan of the cover. Not quite a 'bright' as the 5th, but at least it is a real 1st! Bmcsou24 (talk) 16:37, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Variations of the Early Editions[edit]

I know some started discussing this in the Artists and Fair Use thread, but I thought it was a topic unto itself. I would like to hear more about the true first (couple of) printing(s) of the first edition.

For example, on ebay right now is a truely beat up copy that does not have the yellow band actoss the upper left corner. It does say "Advanced Dungeouns & Dragons" centered across the top. Does anyone have a copy of this to shoot a picture of?


You know. It would be nice if the cataloge numbers could be given in the articles 121.91.106.108 (talk) 07:00, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

The Acaeum has detailed information on each printing, and the differences between them, as well as photos of the covers of each. This page has the scoop on all the printings of the Monster Manual. It looks like the yellow band didn't appear until the 4th printing. HTH — Frecklefσσt | Talk 15:12, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
And catalog numbers are a little too detailed for an encyclopedia. If they have ISBN numbers, we could include those. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 15:13, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

No "Fair Use" images in galleries[edit]

There were several MM covers in a gallery. I've tried to integrate them into the text; otherwise it's just a matter of time until someone invokes Wikipedia:Image use policy#Photo_galleries "Fair use images may never be included as part of a photo gallery, as their status as being 'fair use' depends on their proper use in the context of an article (as part of criticism or analysis)." Just want to give warning so no one else puts them back into a gallery. It's frustrating to have one of the self-appointed fair use cops delete the image without bothering to see if properly integrating the images is possible. — Alan De Smet | Talk 00:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:MonsterManual-v35-Cover.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:MonsterManual-v35-Cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 02:22, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:MonsterManual-1stEdAD&D-Cover.jpg[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:MonsterManual-1stEdAD&D-Cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 02:22, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Possible sources for citations[edit]

Creature Catalog/Catalogue?[edit]

Should these volumes be mentioned in the Early Dungeons & Dragons sections? They were as much a Monster Manual as the Fiend Folio, collecting various creatures into a single volume for Mentzer/BECMI D&D (AC9: Creature Catalogue) and Rules Cyclopedia D&D (DMR2: Creature Catalog) -- g026r (talk) 13:34, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I think they sound like a good addition. — Alan De Smet | Talk 22:24, 23 May 2008 (UTC)


Update to 4th Ed.[edit]

This page should be updated to reflect the publication of the 4th Edition. I'll do some reading and see what should be added. Web Warlock (talk) 12:09, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Future refs[edit]

[1][2][3][4][5] - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 01:17, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Cool! This talk page also has a bunch of possible refs up the page a bit as well! BOZ (talk) 17:10, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Nice. -Drilnoth (talk) 02:34, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Here are a couple of RPGnet reviews, in case anyone can get any use out of them:

71.194.32.252 (talk) 23:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Monster Manual IV for 4E[edit]

I've used one of these recently, so I know it exists, could someone find a ref and update this? Sincerely, Akjar13 (He's Gone Mental) 09:57, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

are you sure about that? I have never seen a Monster Manual IV for 4e. There was one for 3.x, but not 4e. There is a Monster Vault for 4e Essentials, and a Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale, but nothing named "Monster Manual 4" Web Warlock (talk) 15:37, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Interesting use of the monster manual[edit]

I don't know if it'd be appropriate to use it as a reference for the page, so I wanted to list it on the talk page first: "Monsters are people too" found on this Discover Magazine blog entry. - SudoGhost 17:51, 1 November 2012 (UTC)