Talk:Monterrey Institute of Technology and Higher Education
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- 1 ITESM is now in the wikiproject Universities
- 2 Respect and standard
- 3 move?
- 4 Information issue
- 5 Criticism section is biased in favor of ITESM
- 6 Education model needs sources
- 7 Criticism
- 8 Largest Campus?
- 9 Subjectivity on famous faculty members
- 10 MIT of Mexico
- 11 Famous Students
- 12 Zombie Community?
- 13 Foreign Students
- 14 Name discussion
- 15 Fair use rationale for Image:Escudito-itesm.png
- 16 Misleading ranking - Wall Street Journal
- 17 Carlos Gutierres is NOT an alumnus
- 18 Esterilife
- 19 Criticism Section
ITESM is now in the wikiproject Universities
I have incorporated the ITESM to the wikiproject "Universities" please respect the basic structure of it. You are free to improve / make changes within each section. The basic structure contain this sections:
- History -- Describe the history of the college/university, including noteworthy milestones in its development.
- Campus -- Describe the overall shape and size of the campus. Mention any famous buildings and their architects. This section could be expanded to include satellite campuses:
- Organization -- Mention the administration, including leading officials. If this college/university has a special organizational structure, such as a residential college system, then it should be mentioned here. Then, in bullet point form, list the schools, colleges, etc. of this university. If appropriate, also list the faculties and departments at the university. If there is a special course system or requisites for enrollment, mention them here, too. If the university is part of a larger system (as in University of California), mention this connection and provide requisite links.
- Students and faculty -- State the number (and any other useful statistics) of the students. Distinguish between undergraduate, graduate and postgraduate students; also state the number of faculty members. Distinguish between tenure/nontenured, full- and part-time (if possible).
- Sports, clubs, and traditions -- Mention the sports team(s) of the college/university and what is notable about them. Here is also a good place to mention specific traditions of the college/university, like students' union activities, a student newspaper, fraternities, regular activities, etc. The heading may be changed accordingly in regard to the importance of sports, clubs, traditions, students' unions etc. For example, alternative headings could be Students' Union, Sports and Traditions or Students' Union Activities.
- Noted alumni -- Bullet list of Alumni that are notable/famous. Mention the graduation date and degree and give a short description why they are famous.
- Noted faculty -- Bullet list of active and former members of faculty that are notable. If they are alumni/alumnae, mention them here in parenthesis, including the degree and graduation date. For all give a short description why they are famous.
- External links -- Give a link to the website of the college/university, preferable in the English language.
We look forward for your contribution with this article. Just remember to keep the standard as much as possible. --188.8.131.52 14:47, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
- Note that a while ago, a user deleted the criticism section argumenting that "it wasn't in the scope of Wikiproject Universities". However, the section is within the scope of the subject matter: the ITESM. Thus, it should remain and be maintained, as long as it is referenced. Hari Seldon 17:32, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
Respect and standard
We have lots to do with this article. We need to try to keep it to the wikipedia university standards. I have added the header above so we can follow some rules and improve this article. Please respect each other opinions and please support with a respectful source your contributions. Hdpercar 19:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
- I agree. Same as most Category:Universities and colleges in Mexico. --Vizcarra 00:37, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
I moved this to the current name, Monterrey Institute of Technology and Higher Education, because I believe it conforms best to the Wikipedia:Naming_conventions, which say that full names are better than acronyms, and English names are better than foreign. This particular translation seems to be very popularly used, for example in the US News and World Report university rankings. Cpastern 16:10, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
I have recommended this article for clean-up. The grammar and structure are dreadful, and some sections are entirely out of context and irrelevant, in particular the Criticism section at the end. 184.108.40.206 18:10, 27 April 2006 (UTC)Irishabroad, 19:11, 27 April 2006 (GMT)
According to the last official information, from now on, the university will always try to be referred as Tecnológico de Monterrey, and when referred to it in english, it should NOT be translated.
- Anonymous: I agree Hari Seldon 05:54, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
I also agree with re-naming this article Tecnologico de Monterrey as stated at the [www.itesm.mx] webpage Hdpercar 19:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
According to official documentation, the name should never be translated, as stated in page 2 of this document: 
the official names for the institution are: "Instituto Tecnológico y de Estudios Superiores de Monterrey" for legal use, and "Tecnológico de Monterrey" for institutional use. further information on the policies concerning the use of the university's imagery and identifying matters can be found at  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 04:17, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
"The ITESM has over 7,600 teachers, of which 99% hold a degree superior to the one they are teaching" I got my bachelor's degree at the ITESM and unfortunately, I can demonstrate that 99& of the teachers, have exactly the same degree they're teaching. So this is just a form of propaganda.
"Research is one of the priorities of the ITESM, and many important Mexican researchers find their home here." As you can see, if you read carefuly, you'll find out that the words clearly demonstrate that the article was written from someone at the ITESM as a form of propaganda. Of course, this is not the only phrase that emphasises it.
- I'd like discuss the fact that most of the teachers have a higher degree. I also achieved my bachelor's degree at ITESM recently and I had the chance to see many changes in the system including that statement on the article. New recruited teachers must have a higher degree and many who doesn't comply with such requirement are being instructed on one. I agree with you they arent 99% by this time but i guess it's gradual, so we ought to state that instead of the propaganda you mention.
- The "99% discussion" is fairly biased if you attended ITESM as a foreign exchange student, in which case many teachers in the international programs department (teaching Spanish to foreign exchange students)do not have more than a bachelor's degree (licensiado/a). I have no doubt that the "actual courses" at ITESM, for degree-seeking students, fall within the 99%.
- Fluency in English is required to graduate from ITESM, by passing the TOEFFL at a particular score which varies depending on one's major. The large campuses(Monterrey, Mexico City, Guadaljara) have foreign language courses in almost any language imaginable, like any large University in the United States. I cannot validate the French coursework, although I don't doubt it. If true, it refers to regular coursework in a particular field (Business, Engineering, etc.) that is taught in French, not an actual French course. As I mentioned, the University offers a variety of what it calls "third language courses" (anything besides English or Spanish) and has been doing so much earlier than 2003.
-- I certainly believe that Research is not one of Tec priorities. In fact, I think that is one of the main reasons ITESM is not called a university, but a Techonology Institute. Don't get me wrong, I do believe education is right ( I am a Tec student ), just reasearch is not their priority.
-- I also agree that research at ITESM is not a priority, I am a former graduate and consultant from ITESM and the institution has a business-oriented model that certainly does not work well in favor of research as they would not support research that is not profitable.
-- Agree with the two previous commentseJ 18:24, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I also agree that the Tecnologico de Monterrey is not a institution where research is a priority, technological and an entrepreneur spirit are priorities Hdpercar 19:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
- Either way, we need sources. By the way, good job on the header! Hari Seldon 19:49, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Criticism section is biased in favor of ITESM
I deleted some of the third paragraph's text, which read: "In yet another sign of lack of respect for freedom of speech, the school blocked a website developed by students from the Monterrey Campus within its campi, which included reviews and comments about the faculty posted by other students who had taken courses with them. It was a website similar to the popular ratemyprofessors.com in the United States. The website raptadoporaliens.com was used by students as a guide to choose courses based on these reviews, as a result, some professors who had been reviewed as easier became the most difficult ones."
The last part "as a result, some professors who had been reviewed as easier became the most difficult ones" is wrong, since it cannot be proved and has no sources whatsoever. Don't state things based on opinions.
--- I do agree to erase the Criticism part because there is Freedom of Speech at Tec. According to Chapter 4, Articles 13 to 15 of the General Rules and Regulations for Students at ITESM it is the right of an ITESM Student to
Chapter Four Freedom of Speech
Article 13. Students are free to manifest points of view or opinions different those of other students, professors, authorities, and members of the community of Tecnológico de Monterrey, provided that they:
Express their opinions reasonably, in an orderly manner, showing the consideration and respect that the professor, fellow classmates, and the Institution deserve. Listen and respect the person who has the floor. Use language appropriate for integral development of themselves and to the Principles of Tecnológico de Monterrey as an educational and formative Institution.
Article 14. Tecnológico de Monterrey recognizes and respects the right of its students to sustain their own points of view as private citizens, when off campus or in non-institutional activities, on their own behalf and not in representation of Tecnológico de Monterrey or its student associations.
Article 15. No individual student or student association can use the name of Tecnológico de Monterrey in activities of political or religious character nor conduct activities of such nature within its installations. Students and student organizations may discuss topics of their interest and express their opinions orally or in writing, with order and dignity, in a manner that does not interrupt or interfere with normal Institutional activities, while respecting the opinions of other students, professors, authorities, and members of the educational community.
18.104.22.168 19:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)Rebeca Moreno Jiménez- BIA 07' Monterrey Campus
Education model needs sources
"Part of the education redesign includes having certain courses taken partly online or exclusively online. It also includes field work, such as practices in the private initiative. Learning foreign languages is a must, especially English. Most courses are bilingual, and in 2003 the first course in French was given."
This is true, kind of. We have no sources to this and i will erase it until someone proves it.
- The source is the ITESM website itself. Hari Seldon 06:26, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
- I think that the Criticism Section such as it is should be deleted. I do believe that ITESM System is far from perfect, yet that episode in Tec history is highly debated. Almost any "fact" will be biased, or at least considered biased (for good or for bad). Furthermore, the act was not directed against the ITEM itself, but the president.
- If this section is to stay, it should include info such as Education Plans Criticism, lack of reseach, high costs vs not that high education.
- I agree on a criticism section arguing on Education Plans, and moreover lack of research (specifically since the ITESM seems to make a great deal about their research achievements). Plus, someone should check on the neutrality of the statements, and of course, sources would be nice as well. Hari Seldon 06:26, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
- I had written the original criticism section however someone seems to have completely changed it, I had cited it from the jornada newspaper, however someone changed it into some apology for the school over the incident without any sources. Is it appropriate to revert it to the original criticism with the original source?
Solid Reign 16:25, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Using only one source is not a reliable method. I think that adding sources would definitely be positive, but be careful of the wording. If only La Jornada is doing the criticism, then you should write "according to La Jornada...", and so on. Wikipedia is not a place to make criticism, it is a place to document knowledge. Hari Seldon 17:57, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks, I looked for other sources to the story but la jornada was the only place that covered it. I had originally added it because the article seemed to be written by the ITESM staff and wanted to balance it a bit (I realize this isn't the way to do it). However I do think that it made a valid point and I tried to be as neutral as possible. I'll later today try to document the claims and maybe delete the ones that are unverifiable. Solid Reign 18:56, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
- I am agree with Hseldon10, Wikipedia is not a place to make criticism. I think all human organizations are far from perfect, specially the universities. I do not think is right, that this is the only mexican university with a criticism section. I also think that this section should be deleted. If Solid Reign wants to have a cristicism section in this university he would put the same section in the rest of mexican universities. Makero_mx 9:26, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
- As a student I agree that Tec is far from perfect, yet I do think that the CEM episode should be mentioned, for it involved one of Mexico's most important universities preventing a student from expressing her point on view, and it even made it to press everywhere, there are sources to prove it. Maybe criticism is not the apropiate section, but I believe it should be included somewhere. BTW- that thing about restricting access to certain internet sites is true, we're living it right now at our campus... and the ducks thing was greatÑ
- It was at the CCM and I was there. CCM do not preventing her to express her point of view to the President. CCM preventig her from the press who wants to do a big deal from that.. and of course they failed. Furthermore La Jornada can not be considered an objective source... so you need to put other sources and write again that section. You need to put the girl´s interview that Excelsior published. The Vandal 13:50, 20 December 2006
- This is not some random criticism written by me, it is sourced and it was covered by a newspaper. The ITESM came under criticism for this, I don't see why I have to put a criticism section under the other universities just because the ITESM has one, if you feel another university needs such a section, by all means, find some valid sources, and add it. The article is true, it was a big deal, and is from a major Mexican newspaper. The way the section is written, I believe, is unbiased and tries to give a neutral point of view.
Solid Reign 18:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- Ideally, content in wikipedia should be sourced. Sold Reign, please make an effort to find a source and quote in the article. I am not saying that the ITESM should not have a criticism section, I believe that precisely because of the imperfection inherent in all instutions, all articles about institutions should have a criticism section. The only thing I am saying is that the criticism should be sourced. The thing about restricting access to internet needs a source. It should also be noted that restricting access from college internet is a common thing in Universities across the US and other countries. I don't see why this should be "critiziable", but if you find a source, and you think it deserves to be added, by all means do so!
- Finally, as a graduate from ITESM I also find the zombies, the ducks, and all the other jokes great, but lets try to keep them off the articles. The last thing this article needs is vandalism. Hari Seldon 20:49, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
- The part that I wrote had included only the "jornada" part, and I had removed the unsourced comments, about the website blocking, and magazine, however someone added them again. I agree with you, I don't think that they should be mentioned, even less if they can't be verified. Oh, and as much as I wish I would have, I didn't write the zombie and duck parts.
I just deleted a line which stated that the Mexico City campus is the second largest of the system. As far as I know as a student of the Institution, the second largest is the State of Mexico campus.
Subjectivity on famous faculty members
I believe that the whole section of famous faculty members is strongly subjective as does not mention the reason of their fame. Moreover, there are many more people in the faculty with same or higher level of education that have achieved greater accomplishments and would not appear as famous.
I agree with this, in the case of "famous faculty members" those need to be included in the new "Noted Alumni" section only if they studied at the Tec once, in order to comply with the wikipedia project standard. Also to keep this article updated; some professors move from one institution to other, so keeping updated may be difficult. An university must be famous for the outcome of its alumni not because of its facilities, professors or resources. Let´s keep the wikipedia standard. Hdpercar 20:03, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
MIT of Mexico
I removed the sentence that specifies that ITESM is considered the "MIT of Mexico". Regardless of the quality of ITESM, this nickname is not only impopular but also undocumented. As a student at ITESM, I never heard such term to refer to it. Likewise, a Google Search in Spanish and English for "Mexican MIT" and "MIT de México" retrieved no results related to the ITESM, with the exception of this very site. Hence, I believe that Wikipedia should not contain such term, for it does not represent an existing phenomenon. This, again, comes regardless of the fact that the nickname could actually work.
- It is a common allusion from professors and students, that Eugenio Garza Sada, founder of the ITESM and an MIT graduate, had envisioned the Institute to become "the MIT of Mexico". Hari Seldon 06:22, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
- While it is, in fact, true that Eugenio Garza Sada is an MIT graduate and has molded several of the ITESM's administrative and academic decisions on the MIT model, there's a difference between being inspired by MIT and actually being called the MIT of Mexico. I think that such statement should not be included unless there were some actual sources that there is a widespread use of the nickname by the general public, media, or at least academic community. Otherwise, I consider that this statement cannot really hold, as much as I would want it to. (I am an ITESM alumnus)
- Well, yes, I agree. However, I heard a lot of my teachers at the ITESM call the Tec by that nickname. Perhaps it is only an internally used nickname, but nevertheless it exists, and it is based on Mr. Garza Sada's modeling of the institute after the MIT. At least this much can be included in the article. Hari Seldon 20:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't think this page should have a "famous students" section...
1.- "Famous" is a relative term, so unless it is very well cited, I don't think it would be easy to qualify for a justification in using this adjetive to a student.
2.- It may be a way of personal promotion, which is against Wikipedia rules
3.- Again, the two cases presented so far, I find them controversial. Why is having a TV show, or being a member of MENSA famous? Do other schools not have students with TV shows, or who are members of MENSA? (At least in Monterrey, yes they are)... And, where is it sourced that such TV show is "the most popular" in Monterrey? As far as I know, the most popular show is the weekly soccer.
So, for the above reasons, I don't think this page should have a "famous students" section, at least not with the content specified so far...
Hari Seldon 22:32, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree with this, in the case of "famous students" those need to be included in the new "Noted Alumni" section only if they studied at the Tec once, in order to comply with the wikipedia project standard. An university must be famous for the outcome of its alumni not because of its facilities, professors or resources. Let´s keep the wikipedia standard. Hdpercar 20:04, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
What is that? Pablo 23:56, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
There should be mention of foreign students attended ITESM through an exchange program. I went to the Guadalajara campus and a friend of mine went to the Mexico City campus. There were a lot of Americans and Canadians, as well as Europeans, who were there to learn Spanish. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 15:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC).
Ok, there appears to be a misconception. The Tecnológico de Monterrey isn't the "official name of the previously named ITESM"...
The Tecnológico de Monterrey is the name of an education system that includes the ITESM and all its campus, but also the EGADE, the EGAP, the Virtual Univeristy, and several high schools around the country. Lets not mistake or confuse one with another. Hari Seldon 21:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I will change the article based in your observation. However I fell the introduction needs even more clarification based in a respectful source. Does someone have any? 126.96.36.199 04:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
The article is somewhat confusing for someone that is not familiar with the ITESM, sometimes the article seems to refer to the University, to all the campuses, the whole educational system, the high schools and sometimes solely to the Monterrey campus. I am not familiar to ITESM but I would suggest a good example might be the University of California article where the main UC article refers to the whole educational system, and there are separate articles for each one of the UC Campuses (Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, etc) and other affiliated academic institutions. Not to be an ass, but I would say that ITESM seems to resemble more UC than MIT.--LS1010 01:08, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for Image:Escudito-itesm.png
Image:Escudito-itesm.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:05, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Misleading ranking - Wall Street Journal
The mention of the survey of 'corporate recruiters' is misleading. A high rank on this survey could be an indication of graduates who cannot sufficiently negotiate. The survey is by 'recruiters' who are monetarily motivated to get university graduates into their companies. Extremely strong graduates are not completely favored by recruiters because those graduates will have multiple employment and academic offers, which in turn requires the recruiters to offer very high compensation and still lose the candidate. As an example, that is why Stanford, with its average starting salary much higher, ranks below ITSEM. There are other surveys that would serve as a better metric. TeamX 05:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Carlos Gutierres is NOT an alumnus
When the news came out about Gutierrez' appointment, the ITESM stated that he is NOT an alumnus because he only studied a few semesters and did not graduate from the Tec. You can only consider yourself an alumnus of whatever university if you finished there! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 03:57, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
The definition of alumnus does not always mean a 'graduate'. It can apply to any 'former student' regardless of graduation. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumnus . TeamX (talk) 22:40, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
Is the Institute at present conducting new protocol studies on this product together with the Medical Research Unit of PRODINV,S.A.de C.V. If so how can I get more info
Thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 16:42, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm pasting the criticism section here since it gets deleted every couple of months and gets pushed down. The school has been criticized as restricting freedom of speech, and came under criticism when in 2005, according to La Jornada newspaper, Karla Solares Romero, a 17 year-old student, confronted President Vicente Fox concerning what he thought of the unconstitutionality of the desafuero and the lack of respect for her electoral rights. This occurred during a conference organized in one of the ITESM's campus. Some of the students and faculty defended her, while the event organizers and other faculty members were upset, citing lack of respect for Fox. The director of the Interdisciplinary High School program was overheard saying she should 'say goodbye to ITESM'. This all happened while Solares was isolated in a classroom, ostensibly to prevent her from talking to the press. The event was notorious because of the apparent lack of respect for freedom of speech coming from a leading university. -Solid Reign (talk) 19:44, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- The info gets deleted because 1. Such sections are discouraged by Wikipedia:Criticism_sections and 2. The info is already at Student Life. -José Gnudista (talk) 05:53, 29 January 2009 (UTC)