Talk:Muhammad Ali

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Former good article nominee Muhammad Ali was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
July 29, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed
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edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Muhammad Ali:
  • In the section, "The Nation of Islam and Religious Beliefs," the article states: "...Ali's religious beliefs at the time included the notion that the white man was "the devil" and that white people were not 'righteous.'" While qualifying the belief with the phrase, "at the time" implies that Ali may not hold such a belief in the present day, it does not follow up by verifying how Ali's belief on the matter actually did change. In 2002, David Frost interviewed Ali and asked him whether he still believed all whites were devils, as he had once proclaimed. Ali replied that it had been Elijah Muhammad who taught him that view and that he, Muhammad Ali, now sees the view as "wrong."Hoiser (talk) 15:04, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
  • In the last paragraph of intro, the article states: "He transformed the role and image of the African American athlete in America by his embrace of racial pride and his willingness to antagonize the white establishment in doing so." The "white establishment" is a dubious phrase, even in 1960s America. The phrase implies that blacks were not allowed to become leaders of government or business at the time, as if the power structure was then and always would be purely white. There were certainly black members of the federal government and the business elite then and these institutions have become progressively more diversified with the years. A more accurate statement would be to the effect of: "...to antagonize some white members of the establishment."Hoiser (talk) 15:04, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Fix issues from GA review:
    • It's poorly sourced for it's length, only 16 citations in a article that is about 50 KB in length.
  • Explain why Ali was stripped of his title in 1964, this is currently mentioned in the list at the end without any reason being given
  • Add the final decision of the Supreme Court on Ali's refusing to serve in the military. Several court decisions are mentioned but the final conclusion is missing completely!
  • Properly format all references.
  • Mention the fact that Ali called Frazier an "Uncle Tom" and "a dumb gorilla," both of which were widely reported in the press at the time.
  • The first fight with Leon Spinks was in Las Vegas NOT at the Superdome, which is where the second fight took place. Mal2104 (talk) 01:33, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
  • Tomorrow's Champions was hosted by Ed Kallay. I think Martin produced the program. Older47 (talk) 22:28, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
  • His last wife is/was Yolanda (Williams)Ali. Lonnie is Yolanda's childhood nickname
  • In the lead-up: "Ali had brought beauty and grace to the most uncompromising of sports and through the wonderful excesses of skill and character, he had become the most famous athlete in the world." Not only is this hyperbolic, but much of it is opinion. Where's the documentation that boxing is "the most uncompromising of sports," or that Ali was without question "the most famous athlete in the world"? "One of the most famous" would be much harder to contest. Also, unless you can find someone with credentials saying that Ali "brought beauty and grace" to boxing (which is a matter of aesthetics, and therefore subjective), the statement should either be qualified or cut outright. Finally, the choice of verb tense is a little strange. Is the past perfect tense necessary here? What's wrong with the simple past (i.e., "Ali brought beauty and grace...")?
  • Fix the reference to "other wrestlers"! Jimwrightbe (talk) 00:06, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
  • The date of the first Frazier-Ali fight was MARCH, not May, 8, 1971. It is correctly reported on the list of fights near the end of the article but stated incorrectly in the earlier text.
  • In 1980, Ali challenged Larry Holmes for the WBC title, not the WBA title as stated in the text. The correct title that was contested is listed in Ali's professional record.

Muhammad Ali's 8th daughter[edit]

Muhammad Ali has 8 daughters not 7. His 8th daughter is named Kiiursti Mensah Ali. It should written that way on the article.2001:8003:441D:9701:223:32FF:FE9E:4B9F (talk) 09:31, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Do you have a reference that shows this? Stevie is the man! TalkWork 16:07, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Rapidly declining health[edit]

Hearing via multiple news reports about Ali's failing health, but with a caveat that it is coming from his brother; no other siblings have come forth to verify the story. The Daily Mail seems to have the best coverage, including putting in the "Brother may be lying again" coverage.

Daily Mail: Boxing legend Muhammad Ali is so ill from Parkinson's he can barely speak, says his brother

The Guardian: Muhammad Ali can barely speak or leave home, brother says

UK Telegraph: Muhammad Ali is so ill from Parkinsons that he cannot speak, his brother says

STrRedWolf (talk) 15:19, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

I think you've got this right. There's not enough to go on for including this info in the article. Stevie is the man! TalkWork 16:14, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Belts[edit]

The second sentence of paragraph four (4) in Section 2 "Professional Boxing", subsection 2.5 "Decline" reads "His [Ali's] retirement was short-lived, however; Ali announced his comeback to face Larry Holmes for the WBA belt in an attempt to win the heavyweight championship an unprecedented fourth time."

The belt that Larry Holmes held and for which Ali would be contending was the WBC (World Boxing Council) title. The WBA title was held by "Big" John Tate at that time, who won the same belt that Ali himself vacated by defeating Gerrie Coetzee on October 20, 1979 in Pretoria, South Africa. It should further be noted that Ali would still be, for all intents and purposes, the "Lineal" champion, eventually losing that distinction to Holmes on October 2, 1980.

NSoukeras (talk) 19:32, 24 November 2014 (UTC)Nicholas C. Soukeras

Proposed merge with I Am the Greatest: The Adventures of Muhammad Ali[edit]

Either the animated series is not notable, or, if notable, the article is too short to stand alone any longer per WP:IINFO, MOS:TV, and WP:NPOV. The topic is some animated series featuring Muhammad Ali in coloured drawings. If there are existing reviews on the show, the reviews should be included in the parent article, not the other. The list of episode shouldn't be the main reason; not one episode itself is notable unless I'm proven wrong (not I'm wrong). George Ho (talk) 22:37, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

  • Oppose - nonsense. The route to delete an article is AFD. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:46, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Haven't you heard of WP:PRESERVE? Information must be preserved unless proven inappropriate or unverifiable. --George Ho (talk) 06:58, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merge with I Am the Greatest (Cassius Clay album)[edit]

Notable or not, I don't think the article can stand alone. If there are reviews about the spoken word album by the boxer who used his birth name, Cassius Clay, they should be included here, not there. George Ho (talk) 05:30, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

1) it would put an WP:UNDUE emphasis on the album into the article about the fighter, where it would lengthen the article and be a distraction; and
2) as a consequence, it would create pressure toward minimizing the amount of information that is provided about the album, which would short-change the reader by failing to provide sufficient information about this historic and highly notable work.
BarrelProof (talk) 17:41, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
How is some spoken word album notable? Isn't it reissued on CD already? I saw a reissue product on Amazon. --George Ho (talk) 05:18, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
The album is notable because it helped establish Ali's popularity and his reputation as an eloquent "trash talker" and showman, and he proceeded to back up his words with actions by making sports history – becoming the undisputed heavyweight champion six months later. In the following year, Billboard acknowledged the importance of the album by observing the phenomenon of its surging sales after the championship fight, and the record company released songs from it as singles to take advantage of the phenomenon. Moreover, after later controversy, the record company pulled it from the market. If it wasn't noteworthy, it would have just quietly faded into obscurity like most albums instead of becoming so controversial it was removed from the market. Additionally, there was later controversy over whether to credit Ali or a ghostrwriter for the works that appeared on the album. If something isn't noteworthy, the New York Times wouldn't be writing an article 40 years later that discusses a dispute over who should get credit for it. To some extent, the story of Ali is also the story of the historic civil rights, religious, and anti-war movements of the 1960s and 1970s. He is a pivotal figure. The album is an early sign of his audacity, and it foreshadows the way he would later "walk the walk" after he "talked the talk". —BarrelProof (talk) 00:41, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

"Unlike many boxers, he was raised in a supportive, African American middle-class family."[edit]

Remove, please.