Talk:Muhammad Iqbal

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difference of Iqbal and Jinnah ??[edit]

I deleted a paragraph in section :Iqbal, Jinnah and concept of Pakistan

reasons: 1. Iqbal did not backed khilafet movement. 2. In recent years some people have been claiming that Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah wanted a secular constitution for Pakistan. In support of this view they quote his speech of August 11, 1947, in the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan. This speech was made while the East Punjab had been engulfed in massive killing of Muslims, and shortly after the Quaid had been informed of the bombing near Bhutinda of the special train carrying Muslim government servants from New Delhi. He was rightly afraid of reprisals against the Sikh and Hindu minorities in Pakistan. This speech is about law and order, and assures the minorities that they have nothing to fear, that, in the administration and justice, the state shall not practice any discrimination. This speech does not deal with the constitution, nor does it mention secularism. It gives assurance to the minorities that in Pakistan there shall be no discrimination on religious grounds, which is exactly what Islam teaches. The remarks of Mr Hector Bolitho about this speech are, “The words are Jinnah’s; the thought and belief are an inheritance from the Prophet who said thirteen centuries before, “All men are equal in the eyes of God. And your lives and your properties are all sacred: in no case should you attack each other’s life and property. Today I trample under my feet all distinctions of caste, colour and nationality”. Regarding the treatment of minorities in his speech at lslamia College Bombay on 1, February 1943 the Quaid said, ” As far as we are concerned we make this solemn declaration and give this solemn assurance that we will treat your minorities not only in a manner that a civilized government should treat them but better because it is an injunction in the‘Quran’ to treat the minorities so.” It may be argued that in Pakistan the term “Secularism” is used to only mean the separation of religion from politics and statecraft. The Quaid did not subscribe to even this limited definition. where dose Quran comes in Secularism ? In 1948, whie adressing Sibi Darbar Mohammed Jinnah set out his hopes for the country he had created: ”I have one underlying principle in mind: the principle of Muslim democracy. It is my belief that our salvation lies in following the golden rules of conduct set for us by our great lawgiver, the Prophet of Islam.” Addressing Bar Association in January 25, 1948, the Quaid-i-Azam said: “I cannot understand the logic of those who have been deliberately and mischievously propagating that the Constitution of Pakistan will not be based on Islamic Sharia. Islamic principles today are as much applicable to life as they were 1300 years ago.”Where does the term “Islamic Sharia” exist in secularism? Here, Quaid-e-Azam crystal clearly declared, how his personality was, his deep affection to Islam and his desire to see Pakistan as an Islamic State. In 1946, Quaid-e-Azam declared: ‘We do not demand Pakistan simply to have a piece of land but we want a laboratory where we could experiment on Islamic principles.” In his message to the frontier Muslim Students Federation, he said: Pakistan not only means freedom and independence but Muslims ideology which has to be preserved which has come to us a precious gift and treasure and which we hope, others will share with us. (Address on 18th June 1945) Quaid e Azam said :We should have a State in which we could live and breathe as free men and which we could develop according to our own lights and culture and where principles of Islamic social justice could find free play. (Address to Civil, Naval, Military and Air Force Officers of Pakistan Government, Karachi (11 October 1947) why he used word Islamic social justice ? why not Secular social justice ? any answer ? Jinnah said : The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principle of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of man, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. Mohammed Ali Jinnah’s Broadcast to the people of the United States of America (February 1948) he said : The great majority of us are Muslims. We follow the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed (may peace be upon him). We are members of the brotherhood of Islam in which all are equal in rights, dignity and self-respect. Consequently, we have a special and a very deep sense of unity. But make no mistake: Pakistan is not a theocracy or anything like it. - Mohammad Ali Jinnah’s Broadcast to the people of Australia (19 February 1948) Brotherhood of ‘Islam’ ….. not anything else …… Muhammad Ali Jinnah’s All India Muslim League presidential address on March 22, 1940, he explained the ideology of Pakistan: “It is extremely difficult to appreciate why our Hindu friends fail to understand the real nature of Islam and Hinduism. They are not religions in the strict sense of the word, but are, in fact, different and distinct social orders, and it is a dream that the Hindus and Muslims can ever evolve a common nationality, and this misconception of one Indian nation has troubles and will lead India to destruction if we fail to revise our notions in time. The Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs, litterateurs. They neither intermarry nor interdine together and, indeed, they belong to two different civilizations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions. Their aspect on life and of life are different. It is quite clear that Hindus and Mussalmans derive their inspiration from different sources of history. They have different epics, different heroes, and different episodes. Very often the hero of one is a foe of the other and, likewise, their victories and defeats overlap. To yoke together two such nations under a single state, one as a numerical minority and the other as a majority, must lead to growing discontent and final destruction of any fabric that may be so built for the government of such a state.”(politics is just a part of social order.) Wikipedia’s definition of Islamism : Islamism is a set of ideologies holding that Islam is “as much a political ideology as a religion”. was Quaid really not an Islamist ? I have full faith in my people that they will rise to every occasion worthy of our pastIslamic history, glory and traditions. (Jinnah’s Message to the Nation on the occasion of the first Anniversary of Pakistan on 14th August, 1948) And stupid secularists like Hassan Nisar are denying Islamic History and it’s glory …… In his message on the occasion of Eid-ul-Fitr in October 1941, he explained: “Islam lays great emphasis on the social side of things. Every day, the rich and the poor, the great and the small living in a locality are brought five times in a day in the mosque in the terms of perfect equality of mankind and thereby the foundation of a healthy social relationship is laid and established through prayer. At the end of Ramazan comes the new moon, the crescent as a signal for a mass gathering on the ‘Id day again in perfect equality of mankind which effects the entire Muslim world.” In an Eid message in September 1945, the Quaid-i-Azam pointed out; The Quran is the general code for the Muslims, a religious, social, civil, commercial, military, judicial, criminal and penal code. It regulates every thing, from the ceremonies of religion to those of daily life, from the salvation of the soul to the health of the body, from the rights of all to those of each individual from morality to crime; from punishment here to that in the life to come, and our Holy Prophet Mohammad (Peace by upon Him) has enjoined on us that every Musalman should posses a copy of the Quran and be his own priest. Therefore, Islam is not merely confined to the spiritual tenets and doctrines or ritual and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society, every department of life, collective and individual. The Quaid while addressing the Bar Association of Karachi on the Holy Prophet’s birthday on 25th January 1948, said: “Islamic principles today are as applicable to life as they were 1300 years ago….Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. Islam has taught equality, justice and fair play for every body……..let us make it (the future Constitution of Pakistan). The Prophet was a great teacher. He was a great lawgiver. He was a great statesman and he was great sovereign who ruled.” in an address to the Gaya Muslim League Conference in January 1938, the Quaid used the following words to describe his own interpretation of what politics for Muslim should look like: “When we say `This flag is the flag of Islam' they think we are introducing religion into politics - a fact of which we are proud. Islam gives us a complete code. It is not only religion but it contains laws, philosophy and politics. In fact, it contains everything that matters to a man from morning to night. When we talk of Islam we take it as all embracing word. We do not mean any ill. The foundation of our Islamic code is that we stand for liberty, equality and fraternity.” The Quaid e Azam was well aware of propaganda against Pakistan's religious harmony back then. This is what he said in his reply to an address of the Welcome Note presented by the Parsi Community of Sindh, Karachi on February 3, 1948: "As you may be aware, the Government has been making genuine efforts to allay the fears and the suspicions of the minorities and if their exodus from Sindh still continues, it is NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WANTED HERE, BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE MORE PRONE TO LISTEN TO PEOPLE ACROSS THE BORDER WHO ARE INTERESTED IN PULLING THEM OUT. I AM SORRY FOR THOSE MISGUIDED PEOPLE FOR NOTHING BUT DISILLUSIONMENT AWAITS THEM IN THEIR 'PROMISED LAND'" His address on occasion of opening of State bank of Pakistan (1st July 1948) is about his Economic vision : I shall watch with keenness the work of your Research Organization in evolving banking practices compatible with Islamic ideas of social and economic life. The economic system of the West has created almost insoluble problems for humanity and to many of us it appears that only a miracle can save it from disaster that is not facing the world. It has failed to do justice between man and man and to eradicate friction from the international field. On the contrary, it was largely responsible for the two world wars in the last half century. The Western world, in spite of its advantages, of mechanization and industrial efficiency is today in a worse mess than ever before in history. The adoption of Western economic theory and practice will not help us in achieving our goal of creating a happy and contended people. We must work our destiny in our own way and present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality of manhood and social justice. We will thereby be fulfilling our mission as Muslims and giving to humanity the message of peace which alone can save it and secure the welfare, happiness and prosperity of mankind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.187.63.129 (talk) 10:50, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Counterfactual myths[edit]

Hi, Darkness Shines. I browsed Muhammad Iqbal and encountered mythical claim of him being poet of the east. I did not edit it outright, instead placed [dubious ] tag linking to Talk:Muhammad Iqbal to discuss the matter, in a well-summarised edit. My edit was reverted by a reversion with illegible summary, instead of engaging in WP:DR. The mythical claim is WP:OR and amounts to pushing WP:POV. I'm going to re-revert the change and wait for discussion and reliable sources from the proponents of the mythical claim. Cheers. isoham (talk) 20:18, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Read the archives, this was discussed before, and that is not how you add tags to an article, read the usage documentation for tags please. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:34, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Hi,isoham, I do no think Darkness Shines the most experienced editor has reverted your edits illegitimately, you have nothing to discuss here, you just need to take a look at few other good links as a newcomer, as;

Please refrain wasting your and our time, most experienced editors have been involved on that issue. Justice007 (talk) 21:56, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Darkness Shines. What makes you believe I haven't already read them? Whims? Revelations? Anything else? Here..you may want to avoid personal remarks in the future. The article is not in line with the dispute resolution agreement. So, again, I repeat that the fantastical claims are WP:OR and amount to pushing WP:POV. I'm going to tag it as disputed. Cheers. isoham (talk) 08:19, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
You link to APR right after calling me a "nugget brain" because I made a frigging typo. The sources given previously certainly support the section and you are just being disruptive. Darkness Shines (talk) 08:32, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi, Justice007. Yes, I think I need to learn much, I always do, but wonder how you concluded that with certainty, especially the statement 'you have nothing to discuss here'. Whether the revert by the 'most experienced' editor was in good faith or illegitimate shall unveil with discussion and time. For now, you are entitled to your opinion. Thanks for the reminder. isoham (talk) 08:47, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi, Darkness Shines. I repeat, the section is nowhere close to being in line with the dispute resolution agreement. If you haven't read it of late and unaware of the exact contents, may be you would like to read the discussion again; even the first paragraph would shed some light. As for your unencyclopaedic concerns, it's best to answer them separately. Here:
  • Not that it matters. But since you've used that as an alibi for making personal attacks, an alibi that seems escapism and falsehood, I must make my point why your 'typo' claim seems false:
  • You made the same 'typo' error twice. First time with no grammar either. Therefore undecipherable.
  • Typos are substitution type errors (that too limited to keys close-to the desired character), rarely omission type errors.
  • A scroll through the past history of changes and dispute resolution discussions makes it clear that you've been making this 'typo' very often
  • Hence, the inference - 1. You either don't know how to spell the word OR 2. Use SMS lingo. Given the commonality of the word, 2. more likely than 1. - whch s nt rcmmndd snc t mks thngs undcphrbl mr so n ths cse snc it chngs to anthr lgtmt nglsh wrd
  • You may like to avoid that label as well. To cause disruption one would use IP edits and sockpuppetry, not tag article and post links to talk page.

Now, back to work. Poet of the east claim does not stand. And it does not stand at all in its current form for many reasons. But, as a start you'd notice that the very first and apparent reason is it is not in line with dispute resolution agreement. The article boldly proclaims a no-strings-attached global title while the title is used only mostly by Urdu speaking Pakistani population, occasionally by Persian speaking population, at times by Arabic speaking Muslim population, rarely by other muslim populations and never by anybody else. There are other reasons challenging the very question of whether the title should at all even be displayed on the wiki page. They can be discussed later. Cheers. isoham (talk) 09:49, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

The closure of the RFC was against policy in that one has to use OR to add that. If you continue to take the piss then you can fuck off and I will remove your shitty tag. Darkness Shines (talk) 09:54, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
I can find no such reasoning in the discussion. It clearly mentions using "In much of Southern Asia, Iqbal is regarded as..." or "In much of southern Asia, Muhammad Iqbal is sometimes regarded as" in the section. But, the article simply ascribes a no-strings-attached global title. Google search gives following hits -

google scholar

  • poet of the east rumi 11900
  • poet of the east tagore 14600
  • poet of east khayyam 7910
  • poet of east iqbal 7150
  • poet of the east rabindranath tagore 9190
  • poet of the east omar khayyam 7350
  • poet of the east allama iqbal 917
  • poet of the east muhammad iqbal 5480

google books

  • poet of the east rumi 17000
  • poet of the east tagore 44400
  • poet of east khayyam 18700
  • poet of east iqbal 22500
  • poet of the east rabindranath tagore 20900
  • poet of the east omar khayyam 17200
  • poet of the east allama iqbal 7860
  • poet of the east muhammad iqbal 7630

which let apart settling whether the title should be ascribed to him or not, raises the very question if the title even belongs to him or does it belong to someone else! Iqbal gets hits not less than one but less than all three others, not on one source but both reliable sources, not with one form but with all names tried! And, I also got hits for poet of the east for Omar Khayyam on google referring to him as 'poet of the east discovered by the west'!!! Which makes matters worse.

Further the references must be stated in good faith. If the reference says A called I as P, the article must state A called I as P not I was known as P. Also the claim warrants the wrath of WP:DUE#Undue weight as per which it falls under bullet 2 or bullet 3. If it falls under bullet 2 (then there are two cases - 1. the article relates to minority viewpoint 2. article does not relate to minority viewpoint). This article would qualify for case 1 and therefore some relaxation but even the policy states However, these pages should still make appropriate reference to the majority viewpoint (in this case 'not known as poet of the east') wherever relevant and must not represent content strictly from the perspective of the minority view.

Further even these resources are subject to 1. WP:NEWSORG which states Editorial commentary, analysis and opinion pieces, whether written by the editors of the publication (editorials) or outside authors (op-eds) are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact. Even here we can make a relaxation and include newspaper sources but in that case the article must say 'XX says I is P' not 'I is P' and 2. WP:BIASED which is self-explanatory and in this case applies to all the sources emanating at least from Pakistan (political) and Islamic authors (religious) which circumscribes most of the sources listed in favour of the tite.

To summarise, although it is evident whether the title should be there in the first place at all going by Google and WP:DUE#Undue weight. But, in any case if it is mentioned the section should follow the regulations I mentioned. As of now it flatly ascribes global 'poet of the east' title.

And, I'd again like to remind you, of WP:APR. Even if you choose to ignore it, it might be of interest to you, in the words of Justice007, 'the most experienced' editor, to note that the correct form is fuck-off not fuck off (#GramErr blues). And please don't threaten me with removing my shitty tag. If you feel like it, Do it. You are 'the most experienced editor', should know best, I'll take appropriate action. Cheers isoham (talk) 11:40, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

fuck off. Read WP:V The sources I added call him poet of the east, it is sourced to RS. Conversation over. Darkness Shines (talk) 11:52, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Isoham, A Google books binary search for exact expression "poet of the east" AND Iqbal gives 10,900 book returns, on the other hand the same for Tagore gives 2,690 returns. You have to search for the exact expression; otherwise Google searches independently for "poet," "of," "the," "east," "Iqbal" anywhere on any single page in any book. Similarly, the same for Rumi gives 1,740. I don't know where the pairing of Iqbal with "poet of the East" comes from (it might come from his own obsession with East and West), but Victor Kiernan begins the preface to Iqbāl, Sir Muḥammad; Kiernan, V. G. (translator) (2004), Poems From Iqbal: Renderings In English Verse With Comparative Urdu Text, Oxford University Press, ISBN 978-0-19-579974-3, retrieved 13 October 2013  with, "Muhammad Iqbal, the 'Poet of the East,' lived a life outwardly of which there is little to be said, and inwardly of which little is known." That means Iqbal is associated with that particular expression. Whether the page needs a separate section on it, I don't know, but there was really no need to template it either. Please be polite, no need for vulgarity (Darkness Shines) or lame sarcasm (Isocham). Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:43, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
PS We don't need half a dozen sources for "poet of the East;" Kiernan is enough. He is a scholar of Iqbal. Whether the media calls Iqbal that is irrelevant to his notability; it is enough that scholars do. But merely saying he is called "poet of the East" is meaningless. I believe there is a reason why he is called that. I suspect it has to do with his writings and poetry in which much is said about the contrast and opposition between East and West. But I'm not sure. You will need to ferret out the deeper symbolism of "poet of the East" and explain it in the text. Without the explanation, the expression doesn't need more than one sentence. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 12:59, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
PPS In its currect state the section "Poet of the East" is unsatisfactory. It is best not to quote extensively, especially when the quoted passage doesn't speak directly to the subject on hand. I'd say dump the two quotes; they are useless. Instead, use page 2 and 3 (and others if relevant) of Faruqi, Shamshur Rahman (2005), "How to read Iqbal", Annual of Urdu Studies 20: 1–33  to flesh out the section. Do it in words, not by quoting, and perhaps even consider changing the section title to "'Poet of the East' and 'Sage of the Ummah'." Fowler&fowler«Talk» 13:37, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
  • Hi, Darkness Shines, he (isoham)is professional level, does not understand you. Iqbal is known as the poet of the east throughout the whole world in the Urdu circles and other asian circles, whether that is said by Asian academics or newspapers or others, there is no any restrictions relating reliable sources, it is said, it is written and it is published in academic books. Mentioning Google hits do not support any thing. To be more Poet of the East, as to be many '"Sir"' by British and many Miss World by Euro Organizations is accepted. He is "Sir" because British king gave him, he is not "Poet of the East", because of the academics , scholars and newspapers of the subcontinent countries, are writing, saying and publishing. Actually what to discuss with those who have limited thoughts, and considered opinion. Mentioning the rules beyond its concept of the exact meaning do not mean one is allowed to misguide the editors to achieve goals, that does not work here.

I have removed the tag per assuming good faith and be bold that is not legitimate before the cited reliable sources, if one is not satisfied, he may reach the WP:consensus at reliable sources noticeboard or discussion on the talk page of the article to tag the section again. Thanks. Justice007 (talk) 16:02, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

The section and subsection titles have been given more clarity to view the NPOV and for the readers. I hope this helps. Justice007 (talk) 18:33, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
Justice007, you don't need to make up such a artificial sounding title for the section. 'Poet of the East' within single quote is just fine, especially because it is a counterpoint to the next section title, "Iqbal and the West." But the problem with the section, and in fact with the entire article, is the quality of the sources and the writing; it has become much worse since I edited it in early 2011. That needs to be improved. Also, even though, M.S. Umar is the director of the Iqbal Academy, his biography at the Academy website is not the best source to use repeatedly for Iqbal. You will be better off using textual sources. Among the better ones are: 1) Mir, Mustansir (2006), Iqbal, (Series: Makers of Islamic Civilizations), Oxford, UK; New York, NY: Oxford Centre for Islamic Studies, Oxford University Press; I.B.Tauris, ISBN 978-1-84511-094-9  2) Kiernan, V. G. (translator) (2004), "Preface", Poems From Iqbal: Renderings In English Verse With Comparative Urdu Text, Lahore; Karachi: Iqbal Academy Pakistan; Oxford University Press, pp. xi–xxiv, ISBN 978-0-19-579974-3, retrieved 13 October 2013 , 3) Faruqi, Shamshur Rahman (2005), "How to read Iqbal", Annual of Urdu Studies 20: 1–33 , and 4) Schimmel, Annemarie (1963), "His Life", Gabriel's Wing: A Study Into the Religious Ideas of Sir Muhammad Iqbal, Brill Archive, pp. 35–60 . Finally the pictures are too big. They need to be resized down. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:37, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
PS Also, some corrections will need to be made. His BA at Cambridge was a 2-year BA by Research that the University had begun to award in the late 19th century to students from overseas who had already done their BA's elsewhere (physicist Rutherford (New Zealand), and mathematician Ramanujan (India) received the same degrees). Iqbal wrote a thesis for his BA. He submitted, more or less the same thesis to Munich the next year to receive his Ph.D. You'll have to search the literature to find the sources. They are around. The business with the Kashmiri Brahmin ancestors happened a few centuries earlier in the time of Shah Jahan; there was a reference in my earlier edited text which is much more reliable than "Pakistan Today," that will need to be replaced or something equally reliable. Again, newspapers and websites are no good for a scholar as major as Iqbal. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 19:54, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
PPS There are other minor errors in the lead. His first published book of poetry may have been in Farsi, but he had written and published (in various newspapers) the first half of the Urdu poems in Bang-i-Dara by 1908. Also, he is much better known both by the public and by scholars in Indian than he is in Iran. Obviously, in the sentence in the lead, India should come before Iran. In fact the sentence should be removed altogether. It is the type of informaton-less sentence with which the article is now filled. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:05, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
PPPS Also, why is there no "Criticism" section? As it stands, the article looks like a shrine. There is plenty criticism around both of his political and religious views. Where is it? Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:26, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
I think we are discussing here the issue of "Poet of the East"?. It is better not to raise other issues, will be appreciated if you correct the minor things in a minute rather advising half a page with your standard English in several minutes. The article is under construction and being improved and expanded time to time. Please assist the involve editors to correct, improve and add new information with reliable sources, you know. Thanks. Justice007 (talk) 04:45, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Help with the infobox[edit]

The "influences" section doesn't have confirmed information, its lacking the common aspects, such as sources, or description in the wikipage itself. Are you sure that those were the people who influenced him? I know he has admitted that he was inspired by Adi Shankara himself, but this name is no where added. Bladesmulti (talk) 11:03, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

Clarification about education[edit]

As much as I see it it is very clear that he did Bachelors in 1897 and Masters in 1899 from the same college, Government College Lahore. @Sminthopsis84 Can you explain how do you find it ambiguous? -- SMS Talk 15:21, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

"In 1899, he received Masters of Arts degree from the same college and had the first place in Punjab University, Lahore.[7][10][16]" Of the three citations given, the first two do not mention Punjab University, and the third is a book to which I do not have access. In what degree program was he awarded "first place in Punjab University" and was it really in the same year that he graduated with a Master of Arts degree from Government College Lahore? The statements apparently do not both apply to the Master of Arts degree, since the first citation states "Did M.A. in Philosophy and was placed in the 'third Division'." Does "had the first place" perhaps refer to something other than academic standing? Sminthopsis84 (talk) 16:03, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
I suppose the missing bit is that at that time "Government College Lahore" was affiliated with "Punjab University", so he studied at Government College Lahore but got a degree of Punjab University. Though I tried but am unable to find a source that says GC was affiliated with PU in 1899 (though it was later at least after 1947) but I think it is safe to assume this from Ref # 16. Now about the first source (Ref # 7) saying something completely different; Yes that is ambiguous and that needs to be looked further, I will try to find some good quality sources. -- SMS Talk 21:52, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
    • His question was just--- (what?|reason=he was studying at two places at once?), I have already replied him, source no, 16 of chapter 9 and page 151 cearly states and supports the content. he just miss-understood, I have explained him. Thanks. Justice007 (talk) 22:29, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2014[edit]

Please note: Muffakir-e-Pakistan is not the correct transcription, but Mufakkir-e-Pakistan.

  • Muffakir-e-Pakistan is exact transcription----You should first consult the Urdu dictionary please. Justice007 (talk) 06:18, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
  • Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. They look identical to me, so I'm unclear as to what you want changed. — {{U|Technical 13}} (tec) 13:20, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

In other foreign countries?[edit]

We all know Iqbal is known as Iqbal-e-lahore in the Persian speaking world, but is there any independant source that claims he's admired amongst Iranian scholars in Iran, as it states here on this article? The links don't work and there ain't any other (independant) source on the internet wich confirms so. LouisAragon (talk) 13:21, 18 May 2014 (UTC)