Talk:Multiplayer online battle arena

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Hero Brawler?[edit]

This is a marketing term invented by Blizzard to further differentiate their upcoming Heroes Of The Storm MOBA from DOTA 2 and League of Legends. I think putting this term as a definition of the genre in the header is confusing. Hervegirod (talk) 16:40, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

I've removed it. Agree it shouldn't be in the lead until it's been applied to games other than blizzard's new one. bridies (talk) 17:53, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Not really. Same deal with Valve calling them ARTS. In an interview with Blizzard, they said "the hero brawler genre". And what's the problem with mentioning it anyways? Szqecs (talk) 13:22, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

You need reliable, secondary sources which use the term in reference to the genre. Blizzard isn't a secondary source (neither is Valve, but it's not the only one to use the term ARTS). The term is mentioned in the Heroes of the Storm article, as it should, but not here until it's demonstrably prevalent in the secondary literature. bridies (talk)

Suggestion to move MOBA to ARTS[edit]

We should take up a vote on moving MOBA to ARTS because ARTS better defines the genre as opposed MOBA. MOBA implies a free-for-all "arena" without strategy and without teamwork while ARTS maintains the fact that a lot of DOTA (and other games) involve a lot of real time strategy on where to be and what to do. Ergzay (talk) 22:17, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

So begins the June iteration of this.... Please check the talk archives, or the long sections just above this.... This has been discussed ad infinitum. How we personally feel the two labels "define" the games is irrelevant. The sources primarily use MOBA, and we go with what the sources use. -- ferret (talk) 02:02, 15 June 2014 (UTC)
Except the "sources" are general media not well understanding of the gaming culture and terminology. I would not consider them valid or knowledgable sources. Ergzay (talk) 01:03, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
Well, unfortunately, Wikipedia does consider them valid, especially since most of them AREN'T general media... -- ferret (talk) 01:14, 17 June 2014 (UTC)
ARTS doesn't work because you have games like Smite, Awesomenauts and the Monday Night Combat series which are MOBAs but do not control like ARTS. You might be able to get away with calling DOTA2, Dawngate, HoN or LoL ARTS but MOBA is a broad term because the genre is a big umbrella housing a variety of games now. At this point, ARTS is a subgenre of the MOBA genre. Wikipedia is no place for video game rivalry bitterness. 108.12.105.122 (talk) 15:57, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
If it's possible to differentiate ARTS from MOBA then why are they still under the same article? By that logic, JRPG should exist under the RPG article. The fact is MOBA is way too broad a category now. ARTS is a more fitting descriptor and if you recognize that Dotalike games are a very specific type of MOBA then it should deserve its own separate article since more and more games of that specific archetype are coming out alongside other games that are very different from Dota yet still labeled MOBAs. --Aozf05 (talk) 02:37, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
None of the last two statements really hold weight because reliable sources don't treat it that way. RS's don't say things like "ARTS, a sub genre of MOBA", etc. They say things like MOBA/ARTS, showing that the terms are interchangable in many cases. The words that these acronyms mean don't matter. Source usage is what matters, not the fact that "MOBA" could describe any online game ever if taken literally. -- ferret (talk) 13:17, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Better genre name: Hero siege game?[edit]

I think none of ARTS or MOBA is good enough to describe the game genre. For ARTS, the game genre is totally different from RTS on many aspects. For MOBA, well, Counter-strike fits more the name than DOTA or LOL. I advise that Hero Siege Game should be used to describe this kind of game genre as the core part of the game is siege. Heroes farm, gank, level up, buy item for the only purpose : push to get the ancient/crystal/whatever, eg, DOTA ,League of legend, Smite, Heroes of the storm. HSG is never mixed up with other game genres. By only reading the name (MOBA), how can anyone tell CS/battlefiled/(even WOW) is not a moba? 123.243.13.100 5:54 AM, 18 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.13.100 (talk)

Arguing about the base meaning of the words in the name is a bit irrelevant. The reliable sources refer to the genre as MOBA, and a lesser extent, ARTS, so that is what Wikipedia reflects. -- ferret (talk) 11:23, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
I think we need a big disclaimer of some kind, at this point. bridies (talk) 11:30, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Agree, what 108.12.105.122 said also seems valid, in MMORPG games, there are multiple instances like sieges, wars in which case players are divided into 2 teams and fight each other in a battle arena that could be called MMOBA, similar to how Dota was a mod of RTS games, battle arena has always existed. Shaiya, WOW and many more, we "farmed" items and lv in RPG style maps then go into war PvP maps fighting each other. And if we divide further, LoL, PvP battle arena in MMORPG can be MOBA-hero brawler since it focuses more on characters actions, Dota and HoN can be MOBA-ARTS since it's more about strategy.Squall282 (talk) 11:26, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
And still irrelevant, because reliable sources use MOBA, regardless of how silly the name may be. -- ferret (talk) 12:57, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, still, and my opinion is subjective, but how to make it possible i may ask? Squall282 (talk) 06:52, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
There's really isn't a way. We have to use what the reliable sources use. Unless you personally can somehow influence most of the sources (IGN, PCGamer, Kotaku, etc, etc) to start using your preferred term, it will remain MOBA. -- ferret (talk) 11:24, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

MOBA is not DOTA[edit]

I wonder why people always claim that every MOBA game is a DOTA game. Any game that offers a playground(map) for two teams is a MOBA game. Games like Counter-Strike or any other PvP map focused game fits under the MULTIPLAYER ONLINE BATTLE ARENA because each map is an Arena. I suggest fixing this incorrect information and redirect DOTA information to the correct DOTA page and leave MOBA for what it stands for. Competitive online games. 77.187.147.55 (talk) 01:03, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

As if the talk sections above don't already address this... -- ferret (talk) 01:06, 21 November 2014 (UTC)