Talk:Muslim

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Edit request from Fadyyousif1, 2 September 2011[edit]

the picture must be changed it's not appropriate for the islam make it the word more attractive or wrote the word only. Fadyyousif1 (talk) 15:41, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Er, which picture exactly, and how is it unattractive? i kan reed (talk) 15:52, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed.. Feezo (send a signal | watch the sky) 18:17, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Fadyyousif, this picture is inappropriate and unrepresentative of Muslims.--Correctus2kX (talk) 22:13, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

I have made the necessary edit, the previous image was overly linked to one particular group of Muslims, and did not encapsulate the faith as a whole.--Correctus2kX (talk) 22:19, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from Kauserali, 20 September 2011[edit]

The article is quite accurate except for its mention of the word "muslim" also being pronounced "moslem," as this second incarnation is derived from an insult; the modern hebrew word "golem" was the inspiration for this intentional, derogatory mispronunciation. Golem means "unshaped, dumb, helpless."

Thus, "moslem" is an intentional slur against the proper pronunciation "muslim."

Muslim is derived for the arabic root word S-L-M (like hebrew, arabic words have consonant-only roots) which is the source of the word "islam," (willing) submission to (the one) God. A "muslim" is one who (willingly) submits to (the one) God.

Thank you. Kauserali (talk) 23:18, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the moslem pronunciation comes from Persian, where that is how the Arabic is pronounced. It has nothing to do with Jews at all. Ogress smash! 04:17, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
  • @ Kauserali - Do you have any sources for your claims? We go by sources here.

Tamsier (talk) 15:35, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Demographics factual accuracy[edit]

The whole of this section uses one source [1] - a source that is not only strongly affiliated with the subject, but factually inaccurate and may be viewed as trying to overstate the number of Muslim people in the world. Take Senegal as an example. The source says that 96% of the population are Muslims, yet the Serer who make up the third largest ethnic group are and have been mostly Animist and still are mostly Animist or Christians [2]; [3].

"The Serer were known for their adherence to a traditional animist religion and, even today, only a few people among them have converted to either Islam or Christianity." (Willie F. Page. Encyclopedia of African history and culture: African kingdoms (500 to 1500), Volume 2, p 191. Publisher: Facts on File, 2001. ISBN: 0816044724. Also see Volume 1.)

Even if some Serers converted to Islam recently or Christianity, [4] by virtue of the fact that they are the third largest group in Senegal and are mostly animists, combined with the Jola population who are also mostly animists or Christians [5], the Senegal muslim percentage prescribed by the article's source could not add up to 96%. The same argument is evident in Nigeria especially among the Yoruba people and other groups. It is mainly the Hausas who are muslims. Tamsier (talk) 17:35, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

"Müslümanlık"[edit]

Among Turks, the term "Müslümanlık" is also used as a alternative word for İslam. Müslüman means "Muslim" and "lık" is similar to suffix "ism" in English. Therefore Müslüman (Muslim) -> Müslümanlık (Muslimism) like how Christian -> Christianity — Preceding unsigned comment added by AkrepCelal (talkcontribs) 14:59, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Daily prayer, 13 June 2012[edit]

Daily prayer is called Salah, not Salat. Also one of the five is forgotten. (Shahada)

Please fix it, thanks.

Fixed the shahada issue. Thanks. But there is a discussion about Salat and Salah at talk:Salah, and both seem to be acceptable. Wiqi(55) 11:31, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 1 July 2012[edit]

It says "Messenger of the God" in the third paragraph. It should be "Mesenger of God."

Thank you.

Son of Adam (talk) 06:49, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Thanks. Wiqi(55) 11:31, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 October 2012[edit]

At the start of the article it says 'Moslem' is also an alternative spelling for 'Muslim' which is false. It needs to be removed before people looking for real/true facts and information that don't know very much see it and think it's an actual alternative spelling. Fatima.F13 (talk) 08:59, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. LegoKontribsTalkM 09:15, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 19 November 2012[edit]

Bum1234567987656 (talk) 23:55, 19 November 2012 (UTC) we are the best religion ever

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Vacationnine 00:14, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Request for comment[edit]

1328101993 Rename.png Proposal for removing prefixes "Islamic views on xyz"
I have started a request move to remove the prefixes Attached with the Prophets in Islam to there Names as in Islam. Like Islamic views on AbrahamIbrahim as it becomes difficult to search the topic. Please participate in the discussion at Talk:Page Thanks. --Ibrahim ebi (talk) 19:24, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 January 2013[edit]

the spelling "moslem" is wrong "muslim" is right 86.99.221.229 (talk) 15:56, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. The article explains that "Moslem" is an older transliteration. If you think this is insufficient, feel free to reopen this request and propose a specific change. However, Wikipedia articles generally aren't prescriptive in matters of spelling. Rivertorch (talk) 19:30, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Moslem vrs Muslim[edit]

The word Moslem is incorrect because this is an arabic word not english. Moslem has a different meaning than Muslim. Just as in english if you change the pronunciation just a tad it can mean some thing totally different such as Car and Care. Sounds different and different meaning.

Here is an article for your consideration that discusses it and why it is so offensive to Muslims.

http://hnn.us/articles/524.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.198.215.7 (talk) 15:24, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Amazing. I was just about to post the same thing. Well, if no one has responded ...— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 15:34, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
I didn't respond because it looked like an "fyi" sort of post. What exactly is being proposed here for the article? I'm aware that Muslim is the preferred modern spelling—and, indeed, it's used throughout this article and most other relevant articles—but we can't simply say that Moslem is "incorrect". If reliable sources discuss the matter, then the article can discuss it, too (being careful of undue weight, of course). Rivertorch (talk) 17:08, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
It looks important, but I'm guessing for something this controversial we'd need a really reliable source. My proposed change is to say in the article that the preferred spelling has changed because "reliable source" says Muslims are offended by the "Moslem" spelling because of "this definition" or "this reason". My plan, when I have more time, is to research why newspapers actually stopped spelling 'Muslim" as "Moslem". At one library I plan to go to later in the week, I have free access to certain newspapers' archives which might be able to answer the question.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 17:52, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
Sounds good. You might also check the major style manuals if you get the chance. Rivertorch (talk) 22:29, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
I wouldn't know how to do that. I guarantee you the people who work here wouldn't know how. And I'm not having any real luck. "Moslem" is used less, but still used.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 17:24, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 6 August 2013[edit]

The definition of the word Muslim is a person who submits to the will of God 108.94.188.203 (talk) 17:17, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Note that it does already say almost exactly that in the first paragraph. Rivertorch (talk) 09:16, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 August 2013[edit]

The first sentence of this page has had the word cult added twice as well as a mention of hate speech. Nadrii (talk) 15:51, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Unfortunately, vandalism does occur even on semi-protected articles, but it is usually undone quickly. The most recent act of vandalism was reverted in less than a minute by one of my all-time favorite Wikipedians. If you see vandalism lingering in the article, by all means report it here. Rivertorch (talk) 18:21, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Reverting edit by Paul August[edit]

I'm reverting an edit by user Paul August. I have given a grammatical proof on his talk page for editors to view why his edit was incorrect. Here is the link:

User_talk:Paul_August

Feel free to join in with comments on my Talk Page since its a bad show to populate another editor's page with comments.

Sluffs (talk) 10:56, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Another editor called Wiqi55 has cleared that up. I was wrong - I thought it was about creation emanating from God but its not. I thought beget was to cause or occur but in this context its to father, sire - it can only be one or the other. An Islamic site says: The third ayat describes that Allah does not give birth nor is He given birth.

My mistake - if the Islamic scholars want to couple "not nor" then that's fine by me.

"He begetteth not nor is He begotten"

Sluffs (talk) 15:29, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

This is the Tafsir al-Jalalayn version:

He neither begot, for no likeness of Him can exist, nor was begotten, since createdness is precluded in His case.

The version in the article as suggested by Wiqi55 is from Sahih International which is a transliteration for English readers.

Here's the link to the Wikipedia article on Tafsir_al-Jalalayn:

Tafsir al-Jalalayn

The Tafsir al-Jalalayn has been around since 1459 so how about we take a cue from its interpretation. It would be nice to get it spot on.

Sluffs (talk) 18:03, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

What a waffle. Yep. Its "neither begets nor was begotten" - which states that no organic or inorganic object can be born or originate from him (Jesus, you, your cat, the images of him at the Sistine Chapel) because he is perfect and transcends representation or divisibility (the trinity is described as three parts of the same being) and that nothing was the cause of him (absolute, alone, one, unique). I'll go and change it now. Sorry about wasting your time while I worked out the "not nor" issue which actually was probably just a missing comma in the correct transliteration.

Sluffs (talk) 00:40, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 December 2013[edit]

Please start with: A Muslim is someone who believes Islam.

Amir dadair (talk) 02:02, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

The first line in the article is "A Muslim, sometimes spelled Moslem, is an adherent of Islam." I think we're covered there. --ElHef (Meep?) 02:42, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

First use of the word 'Muslim"[edit]

When was the word Muslim first used and who was the first muslim? Ctbolt (talk) 08:33, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Muslim is derived from an Arabic word, meaning "the one who submits" or "the one who believes" or even "the one who accepts". Versions of it are used in the Quran; Our Lord, and make us Muslims [in submission] to You and from our descendants a Muslim nation [in submission] to You. And show us our rites and accept our repentance. Indeed, You are the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. [2:128] The exact wording in this verse (romanized) is Muslimayni, and then Muslimathun. The variations come from verb tenses or something of that nature. As for who was the first Muslim, the Muslims themselves argue that Adam and Eve were the first Muslims; anyone who submits to the "true belief" is a Muslim by definition. If you want to get technical, then the first Muslim when Islam became an official religion by that name would be the Prophet Muhammad PBUH, then his wife Khadijah AS, then his best friend Abu Bakr AS. Hope this helps :) Hope Bloom (talk) 05:20, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

See also [6]. [7], [8] [9], [10], [11], [12], and elsewhere. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:32, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Edit Request[edit]

The page is very concise and detailed, although I was wondering why there are no 'notable individuals' in the page? Some examples of notable Muslim individuals could include Muhammad Ali, Malcolm X, and Al-Khwarizmi (father of modern Algebra). Thanks!Hope Bloom (talk) 22:42, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Hmmm... the Christians article has a Christians#Notable individuals section which provides a summary style soft redirect to the Lists of Christians article. A Lists of Muslims article exists, as does Lists of Jews, Lists of atheists and some others; see Lists of people by belief#Lists of people by religious belief. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:42, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, there are lists... But why not have a few brief examples of some famous Muslims in the article itself?? The Christian article has Notable individuals Main article: Lists of Christians as one of its headings... Why not add the same sort of thing to this Muslim article? Hope Bloom (talk) 00:40, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Nobody has argued otherwise here. I might suggest that you be bold and do it, but I see that the article is semi-protected and your edit count is still in single digits. Do you have some particular edit you would propose to have made to this article? You seem to be suggesting something along the lines of the Christians#Notable individuals section, and perhaps mentioning a few notable individual Muslims there as well -- probably Muhammad, perhaps early organizers such as Abu Bakr, `Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (or perhaps not). Please provide a detailed and specific description of what changes you propose. See Wikipedia:Edit requests. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 04:13, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

I think you've got the basic idea. I was thinking of some more modern examples, like Muhammad Ali, because some contemporary viewers may not know who Abu Bakr or Ali ibn Abu Talib is. A brief summary of some of the most renown Islamic individuals, and their contributions to the modern world underneath the heading Notable Individuals would be sufficient.... Something like (paraphrasing from the Christian article here); "...Muslims have made numerous contributions in the realm of medicine, science, mathematics, sports, arts, banking, and other modern fields. One notable individual is Mathematician Al-Khwarizmi, who is known to be a Father of Modern Algebra. A modern Muslim figure well known today is boxer Muhammad Ali, who's considered among the greatest heavyweights in the history of boxing." It doesn't have to be worded exactly like this, but this gives the basic idea of what I am going for. Hope Bloom (talk) 05:20, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

(Not directly related to the article) Calling Al-Khwarizmi Father of Modern Algebra is hilarious. In mathematics, modern algebra has a definitive meaning, which is abstract algebra. Big names include Galois, Abel, Jordan, Noether, Artin etc. Al-Khwarizmi has literally zero role in this part. The concept (axioms) of a group did not appear until the 19th century, long after Al-Khwarizmi's age. 128.189.191.60 (talk) 13:36, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

to ^^^ try reading1 and 2. Khawarizmi was the first to use the word Algebra for mathematics; that word is derived from arabic itself. The word algebra is a Latin variant of the Arabic word al-jabr . This came from the title of a book, Hidab al-jabr wal-muqubala , written in Baghdad about 825 A.D. by the Arab mathematician Mohammed ibn-Musa al-Khwarizmi. I don't think this is modern algebra per say, but it is more of the roots of modern Algebra. If you want, just change the wording in the small example blurb I put up from modern Algebra to just Algebra. Hope Bloom (talk) 01:12, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Honesty[edit]

I am concerned about the honesty of the article, of editors concerned and of a potential influence to manipulate content towards radicalisation.

Dictionaries typically give definitions of Muslim as: a follower of the religion of Islam - Google: Muslim definition. However the article had described Muslim as an adherent of Islam, skipping the Major English dictionaries. Instead the editor went to TheFreeDictionary.com which gave the definition: 1. also Mos·lem (mzlm, ms-) A believer in or adherent of Islam. The editor did not represent the definition as was but dishonestly picked out the non-baseline content.

please see:
Wikipedia is not a soapbox or means of promotion

It is meant to be encyclopaedic with honest content.

Based on the experience mentioned I am concerned about the contents of the second paragraph. Can anyone cite that a person would universally be considered NOT to be a Muslim if that person failed at any one of the points mentioned: belief in God and specifically as eternal, transcendent and absolutely one, holding to the view that God is incomparable, self-sustaining and neither begets nor was begotten; and believe that Islam is the complete and universal version of a primordial faith that has been revealed before through many prophets including Abraham, Moses, Ishmael and Jesus; and believe that these previous messages and revelations have been partially changed or corrupted over time and that the Qur'an is the final unaltered revelation from God (The Final Testament).

An honest approach may be to leave it with the dictionary definition: that a Muslim is a person who believes in or follows the religion of Islam and then state what Islam teaches.

The article Islam by country gives the percentage of various populations that are considered to be Muslim. Do all these people listed match all the criteria given?

Gregkaye 17:42, 5 September 2014 (UTC)