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/Archive 1

Reason for the shelving of the Control video[edit]

I noticed this quote in the article, under the "Typical" section, in reference to the "Control" video: "The music video for the single was filmed in Nashville in January, but its distribution was halted due to copyright issues in regards to a previously released clip from a european group." As far as I know, this theory is only speculation among fans, as the band has yet to release an official statement about why the video was shelved. Either someone has access to private information or it's just the theory being stated as fact. Sir Lemming (talk) 17:20, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Please make sure next time when are you adding a new comment that you do so on the bottom of the page. It messes up the order of the comments. It's supposed to go from the oldest to the newest comments as you scroll down the page. Thanks! WiiAlbanyGirl (talk) 15:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Records, or not[edit]

I get dizzy watching all instances of "Teleprompt" get changed to "Teleprompt Records" and back again—can we please have a consensus on what it should be? —PrintHorizon 04:04, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

It looks like the records should be included as the link requires it either way... --T-rex 02:28, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

MUTEMATH, Mute Math or MuteMath?[edit]

According to the official site the band's name is spelt MuteMath (no space) [1], though iTunes lists it as Mute Math [2]. Can someone comment? Shall we change the article's title? --Redreth 18:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I have yet to see any consistent spelling of the name. If you’ll note, “Mute Math” was also used further down the page. The credits inside the debut album (both the original and the rerelease) do clearly use “Mute Math,” so that is what I go with for now. —PrintHorizon 19:12, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Most official stuff I have seen has used it as two words... --T-rex 19:48, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
I had noticed the ambiguity. Their MySpace site offers the same confusion. All titles: single word; text: both options. I've sent an email to the band to get an official response. --Redreth 00:18, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
The ambiguity may be worth noting somewhere in the article, yes? —PrintHorizon 02:18, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
You might notice, the ambiguity most often comes into play with their logo, which often has no space in it. However, I believe the band's name is two words, both capitalized. Souldier77 08:26, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The correct spelling is MUTEMATH (all capitals, one word), as declared by Jordan [3], who works for and travels with MUTEMATH, in a forum post on MUTEMATH's website [4]. As such, I feel that all references to the band should be changed to MUTEMATH. However, I do not feel comfortable doing this as I am not an experienced Wikipedia editor. --Nathaniel.buck (talk) 04:30, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

MOS guidelines dictate that all caps are not to used regardless of how a property stylizes. So I'd go for "Mutemath". Sarujo (talk) 21:11, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia guidelines like WP:LOWERCASE, WP:ALLCAPS, and WP:MOSTM require that we spell it as "Mutemath", regardless of what a band member or employee would like. I've moved a few pages and I'll move some more tomorrow once the redirect pages get deleted. Wyatt Riot (talk) 09:17, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
I like how that forum post has apparently died, but at the bottom of the page it rather clearly says "© 2009 Mute Math" —Fridgey34 (talk) 15:01, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

The amazing disappearing photo caption[edit]

OK, folks... what is the reason someone keeps removing the caption under Mute Math's photograph that lets you know which one is which? Of course, I know who they are, but if someone is learning about them for the first time through this page, how would they figure it out?

Typical Video[edit]

The video wasn't done in one take. There are a few cleverly hidden (and maybe not so clever) cuts in the video. Also, the footage on YouTube shows them doing shots in the video several times CerpinTaxt 19:16, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

MUTE MATH is the best band. darren king is absolutley a master of the drums. Darren KING, is a KING of drums!(chris...) by the way... on shows the making of the mute math video "typical." just type in mutemath typical! the video is not in reverse!!!!!!!! it is actually made backwards! Dude!

Fair use rationale for Image:Mutemath fon-2-.png[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg

Image:Mutemath fon-2-.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:22, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fear of disappearing album cover galleries & lists[edit]

OK, some people may disagree with the way I incorporated the album covers into the biography (myself included), but I did it for a good cause! For those of you who remember a recent upset where "fair use laws" were enforced and those who didn't comply had their photos deleted from the page? Well it looks like the next annoying wave of Wikipedia policy enforcement is going to be wiping out "non-free" images from galleries and lists. The first victim was the Yolanda Adams discography that I spent some personal time working on. Their justification per Wikipedia:Non-free content#Images and Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria is that "non-free" images within galleries are "considered decorative." So some administrators are going through and sweeping out all photos from lists and galleries such as discographies and videographies, etc. So if you've done any work that you really value, I suggest that you take a backup copy of the photos or otherwise archive it yourself. Wikipedia is not being friendly about these things for whatever reason. Souldier77 17:38, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Recent edits and early band history[edit]

Edits in the past month deleted some notable events in Mute Math's early history, particularly:

  • Singles released from Reset EP (some typical examples of content deletion are this edit and that edit)
  • A notable 2005 award for the song "Control", again from the Reset EP (example: this edit)
  • Over at the Teleprompt Records article, the section of the associated legal controversy was recently removed without explanation this edit

There is no issue with verifiability since these items have citations, and likely have more sources available.

Rather than have this degenerate into a full-on edit war, we need to bring in some consensus here.

  1. is there a valid reason to remove such milestones from the articles?
  2. if such information is removed, doesn't this distort the band's history and therefore result in an undue weight situation (part of Wikipedia's fundamental WP:NPOV policy)?

Dl2000 16:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The singles, award, and controversy are part of their past whether or not they like it. Since the edits are well sourced, they should NOT be removed. Removing it gives undue weight to their current genre. I don't think that this controversy should spill over onto the record label's article, except if it has impacted other groups. I could see at most a few sentences of text. Although I am a member of a Christian music WikiProject, I listen to as much mainstream music as Christian so I am not biased.

The song Chaos isn't on the single list and it was played non-stop on the radio stations (in Canada) around the beginning of 2007 and it was on the charts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)


I'm not 100% sure but I've heard alot of stuff saying that MM is a christian band.And all related bands to this one are christian bands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:29, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

I think so. The drummer has screwed around on the drums at a church I've been to (guessing that maybe they go there or did) and that Tedd T. producer is a Christian I believe (not 100% positive) because my dad (who works in the music industry) has worked with Tedd T. before.

--Gar-Art Studios (talk) 23:02, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Well a thorough listening to the lyrics would attest to that notion, especially with Odd Soul. However, we all have our interpretations as to what means what- so I would not want to tell other people "exactly" what a song means- that's close-minded. The term "Christian band" more often than not refers to how the record is marketed- it is true that Earthsuit was a CCM band, however I rememeber reading about how MM got into a legal fight with Warner Brothers for trying to force them to be only in the Christian market. Thank God they're beyond that! Coemgenv (talk) 20:45, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Christian beliefs does not make a band a Christian Band in genre, unless they decide to identify themselves this way. Their lyrics do occasionally make religious references, but in order to be qualified as a Christian music, their music would need to be more consistent with worship music. They would need to be "lyrically focused" on Christian themes. [1] Jpagel (talk) 19:52, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Dispute with Mute Math being in the Christian Music Wikiproject[edit]

I came across something confusing whilest just reading the Wikipedia article about Mute Math's production company, Teleprompt Records. Here's a line from the previously mentioned Wiki article that birthed my confusion regarding Mute Math's inclusion in the Christian Music Wikiproject - "Teleprompt claimed that the marketing of Mute Math as a "Christian" band on WB's Word Records constituted breach of contract and negligent mis-representation". If they settled in court because Warner Brothers "negligently misrepresented" Mute Math by marketing them as a Christian band, what is the reasoning behind having them in the Christian Music Wikiproject? I just find this very confusing. I know this page doesn't see too much activity, but perhaps someone can clarify? I am both a large fan of Mute Math and Christianity, so don't take this the wrong way. I just think that Mute Math should be depicted in Wikipedia the way that they intend to be. WiiAlbanyGirl (talk) 15:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

1) Their song charted on the Christian music charts in the U.S. 2) They won a 2005 GMA Dove Award which is only for Christian music. It is a good question. The WikiProjects are behind the scenes and internal to Wikipedia. They are not an endorsement, or a position on their lawsuit or a musical style. Just a collection of articles on a topic that a group of people decide to work as a community. Royalbroil 14:01, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
A lot of times, what is or is not defined as "Christian music" is in the eye of the beholder. Take, for instance, U2. They have taken great measures to distance themselves from any appearance of being "Christian music", or being in any way affiliated with that segment of the music industry. Nevertheless, Powell's Encyclopedia of Contemporary Christian Music has an entry on them. This is due to the fact that a great number of their fans happen to find "Christian" lyrical themes in their songs, and somewhat associate the band with their own sense of Christianity, despite the group's pleading. Bob Dylan converted to Christianity in the early 1980s, and went so far as to preach from the stage at his concerts, which left him in a bad place, from the standpoint of having a mainstream career. So, he dropped the explicit references and stopped preaching. Is Bob Dylan a Christian artist? Does his music espouse Christianity? Is he hiding a Christian agenda? How does his faith relate to his art? These are all relevant questions, without easy answers.
Indeed, questions regarding the nature of the definition of Christian music (and the consequences of associating with it) have been around for a very long time. For instance, CCM Magazine decided in the 1980s that they wanted to cover a wider swath of culture, and changed their format to be more similar to that of Rolling Stone. This move proved to be more problematic than they hoped. Their readers were shocked to see, for instance, a review of Styx's Kilroy Was Here alongside reviews of Petra and Bill Gaither. In this case it wasn't that the reviews were endorsing the music as "Christian", but simply talking about how Christianity was represented in their music. The effort by CCM met with enough resistance that it lasted for less than three years, bleeding subscribers and advertising along the way. HM Magazine regularly runs similar reviews and interviews of non-Christian artists, and has even featured Alice Cooper on it's cover. Again, not as an endorsement so much as a way to explore the artist's representation of faith.
  • " don't want to be ashamed of your faith and your beliefs, but you don't want to be marketed by that, either." -Paul Meany - Tucson Weekly - Jan 19, 2006
  • "...all we ever wanted to be from the very beginning without catering to any particular genre or political or religious agenda. We just want to make music with no barriers. -Paul Meany - Boise Weekly - April 11, 2007
But all of this is besides the point, let's talk about Mute Math. First, I've briefed this discussion at Christian_music_industry (Ghetto Assertion). Basically, what it comes down to is that this is a stellar example of the separation between how music / artists are treated based on the perception of their affiliation with religion, and that is is where (in my opinion) the interest of the project lies. Their first release was to Christian markets (and it really is a different market, mixing religion with the various politics already present in the music industry), largely due to the historical affiliation of Paul Meany with Earthsuit. The fact that they didn't want to be known as a Christian band isn't relevant. Their label put them there anyway. They made impact there, and that's significant, even without what happened next. Then, the fact that they sued their own label for breach of contract because that didn't want to be there despite the achieved sales and recognition only makes the case stronger.
The label of being a part of the Christian music project is (as my colleague stated above) not an endorsement as "Christian music", but is just meant to tag that the article is related to the project in some way, which it clearly is. It's not an endorsement of an agenda, or a thought that one even exists, or any other marking that it may be construed to be. Dan, the CowMan (talk) 21:40, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

In any event, it's not our job to portray them "the way that they intend to be." That is what record labels have A&R departments for, and they hire PR firms. Our job is to report the facts of the matter from a neutral point of view, using third party reliable sources as primary guides, and to describe points of potential conflict, rather than take sides. Dan, the CowMan (talk) 03:32, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Have there been any further discussion of this? I thought it was common knowledge that MuteMath is a Christian band. Earthsuit certainly was! (NBMATT (talk) 03:19, 13 May 2012 (UTC))

As I said above, Christian beliefs does not make a band a Christian Band in genre. Their lyrics do occasionally make religious references, but in order to be qualified as a Christian music, their music would need to be more consistent with worship music. They would need to be "lyrically focused" on Christian themes. [2] Jpagel (talk) 19:52, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Elevator Music[edit]

I've edited this album on before and it was deleted. I'm wondering if it should be included or put on Meany's page since it is related to their band history. Album Here From what I understand, the set was recorded just before Mute Math was formed. What do you guys think? FenderPriest (talk) 19:08, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

It's only Meany singing, and no other band members, its a solo release if anything. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:55, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

The booklet that comes with the CD actually lists Greg Hill and Darren King as well as Paul Meany as performing in Elevator Music. Given the timeline that would possibly include all members of the band. That being said it does include other musicians aside from Hill, King and Meany and is not a dedicated MUTEMATH release, so I still don't think it belongs on this page. Pittbel (talk) 12:54, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Listening Parties?[edit]

I think that Mute Math's tour around the country for its fans who purchased VIP packages (which included a free listening preview of the entire 'Armistice' album before its release) should be listed in the tours section. It was essentially a listening party tour. If no one objects within the week, I'm addin' it! :) WiiAlbanyGirl (talk) 23:36, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

So which is it, 2001 or 2003?[edit]

In the intro text to the Mutemath article, the band is listed as forming in 2003. Mere paragraphs later, the history section states 2001. Which is it? Fix it with a citation if you know the answer. I'm only vaguely familiar with the band. Brakoholic (talk) 14:33, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

according to this interview, they formed in 2001 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:26, 1 June 2012 (UTC)


Not only are the following two paragraphs poorly written in almost every way (and as far as I can tell, uncited), they read like they were written by band members themselves, and are thus decidedly unencyclopedic in tone. They're in need of serious revision and citation or will be subject to deletion.

Mutemath started in 2001 as a long distance collaboration between Paul Meany in New Orleans, Louisiana and Darren King in Springfield, Missouri. The two had known each other from their work together in Meany's previous band Earthsuit. Occasionally Paul would receive instrumental demo CDs from Darren. Fairly impressed with his efforts, Paul contacted Darren and asked if he could mess with the demos a bit, adding some ideas of his own. Darren obliged and the two would set in motion a sort of songwriting ping-pong match that would carry on for several months until Darren was asked to fill in as drummer for Earthsuit as the experimental Christian-rock band began to quickly dissolve. After Earthsuit finally disbanded, King moved to New Orleans and began to talk of a possible collaboration with Meany. The two worked on demos and played a handful of shows under the moniker "MATH".
With the recruiting of guitarist Greg Hill, the trio worked in their New Orleans home studio writing and recording a whole new collection of songs. Paul immediately played the demos for longtime friend and producer Tedd T, who fell in love at first listen. The trio continued to work on demos with Tedd T for a possible EP while playing shows with another Earthsuit member in Adam LaClave's art-rock group Macrosick.

--Nonstopdrivel (talk) 12:09, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Redundant drummer on drums playing drums with drums[edit]

Does it really need to say "drummer Darren King on drums". One or the other I think would suffice. Also, if there's a link to the drum page then for consistency there should also be links for guitar, keyboard, etc. Springfinger (talk)springfinger —Preceding undated comment added 03:56, 6 March 2011 (UTC).

New Material[edit]

I added a new section containing information about new material they are currently working on. There's alot of progress on a new album and interviews that haven't been mentioned yet in the article so I added the info. Jpagel (talk) 20:36, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

  1. ^
  2. ^