Talk:Burma

Just got back; universally Myanmar there, regardless of political views, which are now much more openly expressed

I went insisting on "Burma", came back mind changed. "Burma" is now a deliberate political statement on the part of the opposition, not a real name for the country. Interestingly, "Myanmar" is seen by people of all tribes, including the Bamar, as being more inclusive. Wikipedia's got this wrong. 198.240.128.75 (talk) 08:03, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

and you are? I haven't seen you post here before under this handle. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:02, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Not important, just someone who's actually been there recently. I don't really care to the level of the flamers on here but just my 2¢.

Wportre (talk) 11:31, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Using funky modern tools, we can determine which word people in Burma are using without actually going there. See here. Kauffner (talk) 00:47, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Not really. Access to the internet is limited to a very small section of Burmese society and, this is just an educated guess, a section that is probably more in tune with the power structure (which prefers Myanmar). That said, I agree with Wportre that most Burmese use Myanmar when referring to the country, even in English. And, this is a recent change. However, none of this is important because we look primarily at non-Burmese English language sources to decide on our title and the results are ..... (murky!) .... no consensus to move! --regentspark (comment) 01:16, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

You might at look my link before responding. No, there hasn't been any "recent change". Usage inside the country has been "Myanmar" for some time. The people using Google are typing in terms like "Myanmar Burma". They want to look stuff up. They're not making political statements. Kauffner (talk) 01:38, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

I did look at your link. All I was trying to say, obviously not very clearly, was that well to do people in Burma are more likely to "think Myanmar" than to "think Burma" because there closer to the Myanmar power structure and that's the way they've been brought up. Talk to older school teachers in the small towns, and you'll get a different mind set. About usage, I'm talking from personal experience and was not referring to your link (which, in its sparseness, is probably meaningless). But, never mind. --regentspark (comment) 01:46, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

• Agree that Myanmar is the name of this country. Today on the news there was a long piece on Myanmar and I had to do a search on wiki to discover that Myanmar is called "Burma" here. Why don't we call Sri Lanka "Ceylon" by this reasoning? To avoid calling a country the name it calls itself, seems confusing. The rest of the world calls it Myanmar, the UN etc. What is preventing wiki from doing the same? KennethSides (talk) 13:21, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, the rest of the English-speaking world calls it either Myanmar or Burma. You'll find Myanmar more in U.S. media sources, plain Google searches, other online encyclopedias, etc. You'll find Burma more in British media sources, Google Books, English-speaking government sources, etc. Both names are common, and there have been so many "no consensus" results on this issue that I think you can interpret the current name more or less as a coin flip. -BaronGrackle (talk) 15:24, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Seriously I don't know anybody who calls it "Myanmar". Even US news readers refer to it as Burma/Burmese people. google book search Burma. Now google book search Myanmar. 13.6 million vs just 1.8 million. There's your answer, Burma is used many times more than Myanmar in English sources.♦ Dr. Blofeld 08:04, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

"Myanmar" has twice as many Google results as "Burma". --108.225.115.211 (talk) 01:32, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I seem to remember that at the time of the name change from 'Burma' to 'Mynamar' the UN did not recognise the then-government as legitimate as it was by no stretch of the imagination democratic, so the UN did not recognise the name change, and therefore the older name 'Burma' was retained outside the country. IIRC, the only people who used the 'Myanmar' name were that country's government, the pro-democracy movement, including Aung San Suu Kyi, continuing to use the old 'Burma' name when using English, although that may have changed by now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.57.101 (talk) 10:40, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

No, the UN adopted it almost immediately. I wouldn't be in any position to talk about popular usage at the time though. Bigbluefish (talk) 19:07, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

As of 1/16/12 the US and the UK officially use the name Burma as the English language form in an explicit nod to pro-democracy efforts. The UN uses Myanmar because they follow the request of the government of a member country (up until this week, an unrecognized Military junta). Despite the recent change to now recognize the civilian government, I feel the US and UK are in a better position to judge the situation than most of us are and, given the history of the name change, Wikipedia should wait until at least one of these countries changes its position. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.196.205 (talk) 19:36, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the replies. I do remember that there was some controversy at the time over the name change and whether it should be recognised internationally due to the nature of the government ruling the country. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.57.101 (talk) 14:25, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

flag vs name

Hmm... You use their old name, but still use their new flag? The same people renamed the country and changed the flag. Why is the flag appropriate to use, but not the name Myanmar? 85.217.20.33 (talk) 12:14, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Wiki's policy is to follow the English-language WP:RS, and this is the usual way it is done. See the CIA's World Factbook. Kauffner (talk) 13:13, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Hmm... What sources Simple English wikipedia follows, because they have Myanmar there? I doubt neither Burma of Myanmar belongs to Simple English vocabulary. 85.217.20.33 (talk) 16:41, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Kauffner's answer was bad. Burma is used because it has strong common usage in the english language, per WP:COMMONNAME. Although Myanmar also has large widespread usage, no consensus has been found to change the name of this page. Chipmunkdavis (talk) 18:53, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

I should add that the name and the flag are two separate issues. The name should how the name of the country is usually given in the RS, and the flag should be how the current flag is usually given. Kauffner (talk) 04:53, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

They should not be separate issues. "usually given"? Given by who? And about that Simple English question, that seems to not have any sources. 82.141.118.151 (talk) 11:52, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

You might try reading what I write before asking questions about it. Both the name and the flag are given in the Burma entry at The World Factbook. Kauffner (talk) 23:08, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

File:Satellite image of the Ayeyarwady delta.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Missing RfM

Where did the archive for the last RfM go (Ocotber 2011)? All the links I find link back to this talk page, and I can't seem find it in the archives. -ryand 14:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

It is at Talk:Burma/Archive 8#Requested move: Burma --> Myanmar. SWH ^talk 16:53, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

HTML comment

There are only 8 HTML comments in this article and none of them say "Please use Burma". Any suggestions?? Georgia guy (talk) 15:58, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Where would you put one? The page title is protected, and I don't think any assault of inconsistency on the article is going to be thwarted by a hidden warning. Bigbluefish (talk) 23:03, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Such a comment would be at the top of the article. Compare the comment at the top of Color. Georgia guy (talk) 23:28, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Color isn't move-protected though. Add a comment if you like; it's not exactly obtrusive; I just don't expect it to be of any value. Bigbluefish (talk) 11:36, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

move request Yangon → Rangoon

I placed a move request at talk:Yangon for 'Rangoon'. IMO it's just as odd to say 'Yangon, Burma' as it would be to say 'Rangoon, Myanmar', and IFAICT 'Rangoon' still beats out 'Yangon' as commonname. — kwami (talk) 22:09, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

You are absolutely correct that it is inconsistent. But my hat lies firmly in the Myanmar category so much so that - as I've argued in previous discussions - this is beyond COMMONNAME. Where it is a matter of correct vs incorrect, other things should come into account. Where issues are political, more so, and I have long known that references to Rangoon and Burma are invariably used by sources unfavourable to the state authorities. It is largely used as a deliberate and provocative insult. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 19:55, 11 February 2012 (UTC)