Talk:Nasrid dynasty

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject Spain (Rated Stub-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Spain, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Spain on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Stub-Class article Stub  This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 


Untitled[edit]

There is a little town in the Costa Blanca, in the province of Alicante named: Callosa d'En Sarria [1]. At the top of a nearby mountain there exists a little castle known as Guadalest d'En Sarria [2]. In the 70's the name of this town was originally Guadalest d'Ensaria. Upon recent quests as to where the origin of d'En Sarria actually came, I never got a clear answer from the locals. Which leads me to believe that it is a distortion of the original Ensaria, which was named in remembrance of the origins of the Nasrid Dynasty: The Ansars. Could someone please dig deeper into this to find out, whether there is any substance to my claim? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sansari (talkcontribs)

There is no relation whatsoever. The name comes from Bernat de Sarriá, who bought the feudal rights to the then village in 1290 from King Alfonso I of Valencia (also known as Alfonso III of Aragón). His family would control it till it was returned to the Crown of Aragón in 1335. Regards, E Asterion u talking to me? 20:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Sultans or Emirs?[edit]

I see that all the Nasrid rulers in this and subsequent wikipedia articles are referred to as "sultans". Granada was not a Sultanate but an Emirate, thus the rulers would be titled "emir" and not "sultan". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Takeaway (talkcontribs) 09:08, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Not quite. The kingdom of Granada is in fact (maybe erroneously, i don't know) referred to as "sultanate" in most of the relevant literature, as far as I can see. Maybe because Mohammed I ibn Nasr had himself proclaimed sultan in 1232 before in 1246 he consented in being a vassal of the Castilian kings? Maybe because the regents of Granada were vassals, but never to a muslim sultan, but always to the christian kings of Castilia? Or was the differentiation between a sultanate and an emirate just not so strict in the middle ages? --FordPrefect42 (talk) 13:46, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
You keep saying that, [3], but you really have provided no evidence that he called himself a sultan in Arabic.
The "sultan" label is commonly used because the best known book on the Nasrids was written in French by Rachel Arié. And let me give you a sample of translation in the French orientalist school: "«amir al-muslimïn al mugâhidin» (sultan des musulmans combattants)". Amir al-muslimïn is a lakab a notch below calif; the point of this title was to allow room to declare nominal suzerainty of a calif. [4]
Muhammad I also took the theocratic lakab: al-Ghalib billah (victor through the strength of God / the victor with God's assistance) as part of his name. But I've not see any text to say he called himself sultan, in Arabic. That doesn't imply that none of his successors did not. And it was common among Arabic historians to retrofit alkab. (c.f. the lakab entry in Encyclopedia of Islam, vol 5, 1986)
Spanish sources usually say he declared himself emir in 1232 as their historiography is less dependent on the French, e.g. [5] (p. 636)
As far as I can tell Joseph F. O'Callaghan in The Gibraltar Crusade doesn't call any of the Nasrids sultans, but he surely uses that title for some Marinids and Mamluks. The Encyclopedia of Islam (vol 7, 1993) entry for Nasrids is pretty careful to list all their alkab, more so than other sources, and again doesn't call any of them sultan. Other authors are obviously less discriminating.
Now, it's possible that in vernacular they called themselves sultan based on a passage in Islamic Spain, 1250 to 1500 by L. P. Harvey, where a son of a Granadan ruler shouted in battle "Ana ibn al-sultan" meaning "I'm the sultan's son". [6]
I'm going to ask some Islam WikiProject, assuming I can find one, as some Arabic sources would be best to decide what they styled themselves. Have mörser, will travel (talk) 23:23, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Problem with tree picture[edit]

The Yusuf (I) between Ismail I and Muhammad V also ruled himself between 1333-54. Have mörser, will travel (talk) 01:37, 15 October 2011 (UTC)