Talk:Disappearance of Natalee Holloway

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Ttitle change complaint[edit]

I will just write my formal complaint about the title change. I have read and re-read the discussion. And I see no consensus for a name change, quite the opposit to be honest. Anyway I think it is wrong to do a name change without a name change !vote at the talk page. Also I think it is wrong to override earlier discussions concerning the name change and also Natalee Holloway has recieved so much publicity over the last 10 years that she is notable as a person beyond the disappearance itself. iw ill not return to this talk page as I can see from the discussion that several users have been rude to each other and frankly that is beneath me. Regards,--BabbaQ (talk) 10:58, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Amigoe section, BLP sourcing[edit]

Despite a very lengthy period of being tagged for inadequate sourcing the section still does not meet the burden for sourcing contentious information about living people, ie multiple reliable sources. Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons "In cases where the appropriateness of material regarding a living person is questioned, the rule of thumb should be "do no harm." The FA status neither here nor there. As it is contentious throughout and only has one source, there is not sufficient sourcing. So the section needs to be removed now.Overagainst (talk) 20:51, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for misrepresenting the situation so thoroughly. It makes it easier to be blunt in response. There's nothing wrong with the section. Your tag for inadequate sourcing has been addressed and removed. That you constantly edit-war it back into existence doesn't make it more valid.
It has been discussed with you to absurd lengths: [1][2]. The section was heavily edited to address the few issues where it was at least conceivable that you had a legitimate point. The article survived yet another FAR while the section you object to was intact and tagged with that false tag that you persistently edit war into existence. Your edits have gone past tendentious to disruptive.—Kww(talk) 19:52, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 2 June 2014[edit]


Category:People declared dead in absentia Shakehandsman (talk) 18:05, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 21:59, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

RfC: Is the effect of Joran van der Sloot's murder of Stephany Flores relevant?[edit]

In 2010, Joran van der Sloot murdered Stephany Flores, causing individuals in the media and criminologists (among others) to connect this case with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. For example, Larry Siegel, in the book Criminology: Theories, Patterns, and Typologies, writes the following:

"How can we explain the behavior of a Joran van der Sloot? What motivates a young man to become a multiple killer? Tall, handsome, educated, and wealthy, he hardly fits the profile of a cold-blooded murderer of young women."

Should these effects of the Flores murder on the case of Natalee Holloway (such as changing perspectives from criminologists, the media, etc.) be presented in the current section "Van der Sloot kills in Peru"?--MarshalN20 Talk 00:31, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Disclaimer: I am mediating a dispute in this article (please see User:MarshalN20/sandbox), and I personally don't care about the outcome of this RfC. So, vote rationally, my feelings won't be hurt. I also didn't write this article, so please avoid complaining about it to me (unless you want to participate in the mediation). Thanks!--MarshalN20 Talk 04:37, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

  • Poorly stated RfC - Can you clarify what you're asking here? Maybe give a specific example of the text you're trying to add? Glancing over this the section heading Van der Sloot kills in Peru seems really inappropriate an not encyclopedic. Perhaps "Murder in Peru"? NickCT (talk) 17:59, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
  • @NickCT: I expanded the RfC statement. The RfC has nothing to do with the section title. You want it changed, do it. Regards.--MarshalN20 Talk 19:56, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
  • No. Not relevant - Probably best just to stick to the cold hard facts. Analysis of this nature is not really encyclopedic. NickCT (talk) 15:17, 29 July 2014 (UTC)
  • Neutral a of now. Did the investigation find any link between the Flores and Holloway cases? If not, then there is no need to have an additional section. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 04:11, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
@Rsrikanth05: Thanks for the comment. The article currently has a sentence indicating a connection ("On June 7, 2010, Peruvian authorities said that Van der Sloot confessed to killing Flores Ramírez after he lost his temper because she accessed his laptop without permission and found information linking him to the disappearance of Holloway."), assuming this is what you meant. Siegel also seems to make a connection, but one based on his analysis. This RfC also does not ask for the creation of a new section (it's clearly already there!). Regards.--MarshalN20 Talk 04:30, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Apologies for the confusion. By additional section, I intended to say additional detail. The article only connects the two as victims of a common perpetrator. There is no connection apart from that. It makes the requirement of Flores' case here very weak. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 04:59, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
@Rsrikanth05: There is also a connection with the investigation ("Aruban and Peruvian authorities announced an agreement to cooperate and allow investigators from Aruba to interview Van der Sloot at Miguel Castro Castro prison in Peru."), which I assume is the reason the section was placed in the article. The bottom line is whether the perspective of criminologists and other such individuals should be included or not.--MarshalN20 Talk 10:59, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Relevant - Not only there was probably actual speculation within society and media coverage involving and linking both cases, but just the fact alone that we are talking about a major suspect of a murder case, who was involved in the homicide of yet another one, I think it's tremendously relevant. --JimmyBroole (talk) 21:18, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Relevant If opinion in reliable sources think that Van der Sloot's conviction is relevant to his being a suspect in an earlier homicide, then it should be mentioned. But per "no original research", that connection must be clear in reliable sources, not our assuming that the two are implicitly connected. TFD (talk) 03:33, 19 August 2014 (UTC)