Talk:Natalie Portman

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Good article Natalie Portman has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
May 8, 2006 Good article nominee Listed
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Ancestors[edit]

It has been brought to my attention that the section regarding Portman's ancestors needs some work. Maybe not scrapped, but they don't make sense the way they are. "Her maternal great-grandparents" or "paternal great-grandparents". Which set are we talking about? Her mother would have two different grandparents. Perhaps we could rewrite it to be, "Portman's mother's paternal grandparents" or something like that. Spelling Style (talk) 18:50, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Can you clarify which sentence(s) the problem occurs in? The only reference to "great-" I find is "her Romanian-born great-grandmother was a spy for British Intelligence during World War II", which appears in context to refer to her father's mother's mother, since her father's father's parents died at Auschwitz, and all her mother's ancestors appear to have been in the U.S. already, and were from Austria and Russia, not Romania. Fat&Happy (talk) 21:21, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
That was an example. My gripe was "her Romanian-born great-grandmother". There is nothing in the article which specifically cites we are discussing her father's mother's mother. The way it is currently written could be interpreted as either of her father's grandparents. I'm not sure, it just seemed better if it were more specific IMO. Spelling Style (talk) 17:02, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
I don't disagree that more specific would be better; the problem, IMO, is that the sources themselves aren't all that clear. Of the three sources immediately following that sentence, the most complete seems to be the first (currently [14]), which says:

Avner's [Portman's father] parents moved to Israel in the late Thirties. His Polish grandfather had headed the Jewish youth movement in Poland. His grandmother was Romanian. "She spied for the British, traveling through Europe," Portman says. "She was blond, so she could totally pass as a non-Jew. Men, they would always try and pick her up because she was a gorgeous young woman? I'll show you."

Portman pulls out a wallet and from inside that an old photograph of two women: "This is a picture of her taken in Romania with her best friend. A couple of years younger than me..."

Her grandfather came to Israel, expecting to send for his family later. There was not later: history swept it away. His parents were taken to Auschwitz. This is the heritage within which Portman grew up.

I read that to mean the spy was her grandfather's mother, but that's pretty interpretive – and honestly, the more times I read it, the less sure I am – and I don't think we could justify putting that reading in the article. Fat&Happy (talk) 17:51, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

That is indeed a problem. No matter how vague that wording is, if the sources do not state a certain line, we are not allowed to include this in the article. Spelling Style (talk) 19:38, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Natalie's son in lead?[edit]

The current lead section of the article cites that Natalie married Benjamin and they have one child. When I tried to edit this with their child's gender and name (a son named Aleph), three editors decided to revert. The first editor tried to explain that "this information is not needed in the lead." There is no such Wikipedia guideline that says such. Like I wrote to one, you might as well just remove the tidbits from other GAs and FAs, then. They all also specify the subject's children in the lead along with gender and names. What was the use of hiding Natalie's child's gender or name? I do not believe this is an invasion of privacy since we already specified she had a child. Spelling Style (talk) 03:35, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

There is no reason for presenting that information in the lead. Sorry but I think the present wording is appropriate: "She is married to Benjamin Millepied, and the couple has one child." Bus stop (talk) 04:16, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Like I wrote to another editor (who agreed because only Ben would be notable), I am still surprised but if that is the general consensus we must follow. Maybe the other GAs and FAs should be trimmed then? Spelling Style (talk) 17:00, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
I think the lead should read as though it is conveying only abbreviated information. It is in the body of the article that in-depth information should be provided. This is just my opinion. Bus stop (talk) 18:45, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
I snipped quite a few today. Was surprised that the consensus was so strong on these things, but I do recall reading some articles before which never mentioned the personal life at all. Spelling Style (talk) 05:43, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Consensus reached here would not necessarily apply to other articles, therefore I question your edit summaries left at other articles pointing here. Bus stop (talk) 09:02, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, you might want to see this: User_talk:Spelling_Style#RE:_Biographical_articles.2Fchildren.27s_gender_and_name_in_lead. Spelling Style (talk) 17:44, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Personally I see no need to even mention her husband and child in the lead. They are not relevant to her career or her notability. -- Necrothesp (talk) 18:41, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree. It was long the consensus not to include those things at all in the lede of biographies. Then this person started adding it, and it has since popped up in different articles. Nymf hideliho! 18:47, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
Reasonable comments, but I also noticed that same editor adding those lines everywhere. Unfortunately, there seems no specific Wikipedia guideline dictating that we should not, although as I mentioned before, I also doubted its significance considering none of the article leads mentioned the subject's personal life before. Anyway. Should all of those lines just be snipped? Spelling Style (talk) 22:21, 20 October 2012 (UTC)
I think it would be acceptable to omit mention of the spouse and offspring from Natalie Portman's biography. Editors at different articles should have freedom from narrow restriction. This article can omit mention of spouse and offspring from the lead while another article can mention spouse and offspring in the lead. Bus stop (talk) 01:08, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Surname of son[edit]

In both this article and the article pertaining to Benjamin Millepied, the son's name is stated as Aleph Portman-Millepied. Three of the four cited sources make no such claim and the fourth is unreliable and spells the son's name Alef. Hardly trustworthy.

Here's the thing. Portman is her professional name. Judging by her most recent academic publications she never legally changed her name from Hershlag. Why would she then use a purely professional name when doing something as personal as naming her first born? She named him a Hebrew first name. It makes no sense that she would then jettison her surname of Jewish ethnicity. Aside from making no sense, it's just not proven anywhere in the cited sources that Portman-Millepied is indeed her child's surname. Bar digging up the birth cert, it's just not-too-well-thought-out speculation. Shn525 (talk) 09:54, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

It's cited on biography.com that he indeed uses a hyphenated surname. See here [1] and LA Times and PEOPLE. She's well-known under Portman rather than Hershlag. I'm not surprised she gave him that surnmae. 108.93.72.117 (talk) 20:50, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

New Image[edit]

If good, stick it somewhere. Thanks. neo (talk) 22:57, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
File:NataliePortman.jpg

According to the website from which the image was taken, all material on the website is protected by copyright. All editors need to wait for administrative review confirming that it is properly licensed for use on Wikipedia. Cresix (talk) 23:33, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
License review is passed. neo (talk) 01:16, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Natonality[edit]

Changed the order of citizen because logically she got the nationality of the state of Israel at the time of birth

---dam- (talk) 21:29, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Which is the exact same instant at which she became an American citizen. Fat&Happy (talk) 22:24, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

According to the law of American nationality, she has to apply via sanguis or inherited nationality which is not exactly because no have a date but behind it is a fact that she or her parents had to make a particular procedure to obtain American citizenship for her... ---dam- (talk) 22:37, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Not true. They merely have to supply proof of her birth to them, no different than requiring a proof of birth to establish (not obtain, in either case) Israeli citizenship.Fat&Happy (talk) 22:43, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Exactly, but she was born in Israel to a father with Israeli citizenship, their nationality of origin is from Israel, she was born in israel, the correct way to place this important part of your article is Israel and then the American nationality because in this case gives the allusion to American citizenship is more important than the Israeli, missing a main rule wikipedia WP:OR ---dam- (talk) 22:51, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

And her mother was an American citizen. Why is the father's citizenship considered more important here when the mother is the one who counts under Jewish law? Keeping the two in the original alphabetical order implies nothing about importance; changing it to an order you consider a reflection of importance is both OR and POV. Fat&Happy (talk) 23:00, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Alphabetical? Albert Einstein As you can see, not everywhere is set to form alphabetical, and I repeat, I discuss this not in order of importance, if not the physical birthplace of her (Israel). There a policy that says this must be accommodated in alphabetical form? ---dam- (talk) 23:06, 17 January 2014 (UTC)