Talk:Nathuram Godse

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Untitled[edit]

As a person who seeks to eliminate 'hindutva' POV ,May I ask your credend who the hell are you to comment on what "side" of the Indian independence struggle is to be endorsed ?

are you even Indian, that you keep spouting your worthless opinions on all hindu related articles everywhere ? (Son of kurus 11:07, 5 March 2006 (UTC))

The picture is disturbingly low-res and unfit for any article. --128.163.170.74 14:23, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

i think it is too much for godse. everyone supports godse- india thegreat--202.177.165.182 12:23, 27 October 2005 (UTC)pp I think the Godse text is rather long for an encyclopedia article. Perhaps it should be in Wikitext? --Saforrest 01:10, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Zora 04:39, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Pro-assasination[edit]

Isn't this a little pro-assasination

Removing the references to patriotism and freedom fighter would help, but other than that, I don't see that the article is POV. But perhaps, as I'm not Indian, I'm missing some code words somewhere. Zora 22:56, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Even if this is thought to be pro-assassination, it is important to retain the full text of Godse's speech, without censoring it, to retain authenticity. As one of the many Indian people with mixed feelings about Gandhi and Godse, I believe it is important to remain faithful to the true nature of the events, without attempting to color it with any agenda. Editing Godse's speech or eliminating it would be a serious case of misrepresentation and bias. PD 09:37, 01 Feb 2005
The speech is still retained if it's in Wikisource and there's a link to it. Currently the inclusion of the speech unbalances the entire article. I don't think that we include long speeches in other Wikipedia historical articles. Zora 00:36, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I agree. An encyclopedia article should not quote a source text of this length. The text should be summarised and, if appropriate, commented on, and the full text should be held in WikiSource and linked to in the 'see also' section. --HappyDog 11:14, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Can someone explain the judge's quote?[edit]

The article says: "Judge Khosla who presided over the trial mentioned before awarding the death sentence, "If the people sitting in the court had been on the jury, they would have acquitted Nathuram".

This makes no sense to me. Indian culture/history is not something I've studied, so I can't fill in the gaps myself. Did the jury not hear the same things the people sitting in the court heard? And why would the people sitting in the court have acquitted Nathuram? Was it that his explanation of his reasons was a very moving speech? ...and maybe it's not important, but is the Judge implying that the people in the court would be more easily swayed by emotional arguments than he is? - this seems to be the case since he (I assume, rightly?) heard what the people sitting in the court heard, and yet he was ok dishing out a death sentence. Any clarification in the article would be welcome. Thanks. Gronky 00:51, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I believe that there was no jury, just three judges. And yes, the judge was saying that the people in the court were highly moved by Godse's speech. The quote apparently comes from a book Judge Khosla wrote, called Murder of the Mahatma (ISBN: 0-88253-051-8). If I were to read the whole thing, I suspect that I would find that yes, the Judge felt that the people were swayed by emotion. Possibly they were Hindutva believers, there because their beliefs, and predisposed to approve of the murder.
I will see what I can do with the article. It has been a constant struggle to keep the article NPOV and not let anonymous Hindutvas turn it into a tribute to Godse. They're still arguing that he did the right thing! Zora 01:26, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
The actual quote is "I have, however, no doubt that had the audience of that day been constituted into a jury and entrusted with the task of deciding Godse's appeal, they would have brought a verdict of 'not Guilty' by an overwhelming majority". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mudeth (talkcontribs) 08:04, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Major revision[edit]

I rewrote and reorganized. I managed to tone down the Godse adulation a bit, but I'm still uncomfortable with the article. It reeks of Hindutva self-justification. The problem is that they are the only ones who pay much attention to this article. I have a feeling other Indians would much rather forget Godse. Zora 09:19, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Removed temporarily the line added by Imc about Apte and G.Godse because it is incorrect in the current form. They weren't the only ones. There were some 8-10 accused of whom only Savarkar and Shankar Kistiya (servant of Digambar Badge) (and perhaps Badge as well) were released. Vishnu Karkare and Gopal Godse got life imprisonments; Apte was hanged; Dattratreya Parchure, Madanlal Pahwa etc got different sentences.
Can someone complete it and add it back. Tintin Talk 12:56, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Slight POV view?[edit]

I was just reading through this article, and one paragraph just caught my attention...

In 1951, the Hindu nationalists created a political wing, the Bharatiya Jana Sangh, which became the Bharatiya Janata Party or BJP, in 1980. Through adroit exploitation of issues such as Ayodhya, the BJP finally won national power. It was the party in power briefly in 1996, and then again from 1998 to 2004, when it was displaced by a revived Congress party.

Isn't that a tad POV?, I mean I personally don't support either the BJP or the Congress for that matter (not really relevant actually), but surely you can't reduce its policies or the reasons for its reaching power to just those mentioned like Ayodhya?

I'd just like to hear what others who have edited this page feel, before making a change like a rephrasing of the paragraph. Regards Kaushik twin 16:12, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Rephrase, if you wish. I think that's my dislike of the BJP and its handling of Ayodhya/Babri Mosque issues seeping into the article. Zora 20:07, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Chitapavan Brahmins[edit]

what makes you say that the konkanasthas are particularly well known for their conservatism??... "He was a Marathi Chitpavan Brahmin - a community known for its social conservatism". I think this sentence is suggestive and airs the writers own personal point of view. It certainly should be mentioned that Godse was a Chitapavan Brahmin but I think the rest of the sentence should be deleted in order to adhere to NPOV There are many liberal chitapavan brahmins...and there is no method of quantifying the degree of conservatism within a particular community.(Saurabhb 21:55, 3 January 2006 (UTC))

Why is Godse not included in 'Indian Hindus' category?[edit]

Ambala prison, Chandigarh?[edit]

The box in the article says he died in Ambala prison, Chandigarh. There may have been such a prison then, at the spot where Chandigarh is now. But I suspect Ambala prison is in Ambala which is now in Haryana and at that time would have been in (East) Punjab. Imc 23:32, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

deeptrivia's revert[edit]

Deeptrivia, you reverted to an old version of the article. I do think that I re-organized it so that it flowed more easily, instead of being a fractured collection of factoids. Also, you restored the description of Godse as a "freedom fighter". That's POV. I don't think we can endorse one side of the independence struggle. Zora 00:02, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Sure, sorry about that! deeptrivia (talk) 00:12, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
All is forgiven! Come home and we will kill the fatted tofu for you. Zora 00:23, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

4th standard - countering systemic bia.[edit]

quote from the article: "Nathuram attended the local school at Baramati up through the fourth standard."

'Fourth standard'? This is not clearly defined in the article. Needs clarification by someone who is familiar with the Indian education system.

P.MacUidhir (t) (c) 08:14, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, I don't understand this term either --AW 22:32, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

It is equivalent to 4th grade.A person who has studied upto this grade is considered literate.Adi4094 (talk) 04:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

text on infobox[edit]

trying to remove "[[Image:{{{image_name}}}|none|200px| ]]" from infobox (Saurabhb)

Why Godse's image is removed? 'Was he a bad man or Not', that is not a question here. We read Wikipedia to get "Information" and Not "Opinions" San25872 07:42, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Apparently there was no copyright information on the picture. If you can find a public domain picture of Godse that we can use, please upload it! Zora 07:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Removed one recently added section[edit]

A grandson of someone who was present at the assassination was in the news recently, talking about the event as recounted by his grandfather. This may have been in the news, but it's not good history. We have enough eyewitness statements, recorded at the time, that we don't need someone's version of what his aged grandfather told him. So I removed that section. It's not a reliable source. Zora 06:40, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

This is not a valid reason for removal, especially as it was properly referenced. The section could have been rewritten and incorporated properly into the article, but this whole sale deletion is removing content from Wikipedia and thus irresponsible. I'm going to revert your edit later and then work out a way of incorporating the information into the article.
In future, please try to think of valid reasons for removing content beyond personal preferences. Ekantik talk 18:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Ekantik, do you have any academic training in history? Do you understand what a reliable source is? Second hand reminiscences are junk compared to first-hand impressions recorded at the time. Just because something got some recent media play (because the media is ignorant of history) is no justification for considering it a useful historical source. Zora 20:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

No, I just go to university for the heck of it. How many times do I have to go through this with you? Employing a quote (from someone else) on my own userpage:
Encyclopedia. Say it with me: en-cy-clo-pe-di-a. Now, go work on it.
Reliable sources → WP:RS. "Academic training in history" has nothing to do with the way an encyclopaedia is formulated, except maybe at Wikiversity. Is this a history textbook or an encyclopaedia? If you want to go ahead and be an exclusionist that's fine with me (although I strongly disapprove), but if you'd bothered to read my comment properly, I said that the information is useful to be retained if it is rewritten properly to fit within the scope of this article. I agree that the article in question is not an ideal source, but there is plenty more in the article that can be used. Fact is, you removed content that was properly referenced without a valid reason: This is not about what you think should be in an encyclopaedia, it is about what should be in an encyclopaedia.
I'd highly appreciate it if you refrained from making patronising/personal remarks in the future, limiting your discussion to the topic only. Thanks, Ekantik talk 23:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
That bit would be useful ONLY if there were dozens of other quotes from eyewitnesses. Putting that man's family-glorifying remarks about his famous grandfather on the page as if it were the only useful commentary on the event is a distortion. If you want to set up a section of links to "Current media commentary on the assassination" and put it there, along with links to other essays, that would be OK. Featuring it in the body of the article is giving it way too much importance. Zora 03:12, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
OK, whatever. I'll agree just to keep the peace. :) Ekantik talk 05:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

POV,Much?[edit]

Just a smidgen don't ya think? --Axe27 16:49, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Removed it. --Kamden 19:11, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Please be objective, this is Wikipedia[edit]

Three things.

1 This is Wikipedia, wherein we try to put whatever info is available about a person/event in as much an objective manner as possible without drawing any inferences out of the info available. Let the reader arrive at his/her own conclusions. The page is filled up with content heavy with personal prejudices. Please abstain from doing that. It applies for the talk page as well.
2 Let me know if anybody is actively looking after this article so that we could add citations at places where it is required. I do have the requisite material. Would be glad to help him/her out.
3 Article 3.2 seems to be a tad too short & devoid of the all the info expected for such an important event. Would like to enhance it with some more info that is available. Case in point:
http://www.httabloid.com/news/181_1919124,00300002.htm
http://www.india-today.com/itoday/03081998/cover2.html
Please let me know your views on the same.
Kunal.--Kunalpathak13 14:35, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Goadse pretended to be a Muslim ?[edit]

The source cited is a communist rag and the article referenced isn't about Gandhi or Godse. It is about the caste system, and Goadse is mentioned briefly as a Brahmin troublemaker.

You only need to look up Godse's court testimony, which was heavily suppressed until recently, to see that this is just an urban legend. There are several translations from Marathi to English (each has its own biased vocabulary) of Godse's testimony but they all clearly show that Godse clearly identified himself as a hindu.

A fairly mainstream translation used in Indian colleges is...

Why I Assassinated Mahatma Gandhi (Surya Bharti Prakashan, Delhi, 1993)

But I don't know how to cite things on this website so I will leave that to someone else

Aftermath[edit]

Bmayuresh (talk) 11:35, 30 January 2009 (UTC)Why is "Aftermath" section on this page. Is the page referred to Nathuram Godse or Gandhi Assaisnation? Also this article is missing lot of details. Nathuram had attempted many more attempt to kill Gandhi and eventually assasinated him on Jan 30 1948. Please mention the same.Bmayuresh (talk) 11:35, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Conspiracy?[edit]

Although the article mentions (and names) a co-conspirator, there's nothing about the conspiracy or planning of the assassination. It jumps from Godse's political career right to the assassination itself. I'd add an intermediate section—if I knew anything about the subject. Anybody? --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 16:50, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Infobox image[edit]

Needs a caption stating which one Godse is. SGGH ping! 21:11, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Based on my own inspection of the subsequent image, I believe he's in the front row at the extreme left. I would point this out myself, but (a) I'm not sure of the proper formatting and (b) without access to the image in its original context, as a reference, it would be original research. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 12:09, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
While most people may know which individual is Godse, shouldn't the text under the picture make it explicit? i for one am not entirely sure, and anyway it looks sloppy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.61.143.221 (talk) 19:09, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Why the lie about the caliber of gun?[edit]

The Beretta M1934 is a 9mm Browning which is also sometimes called 380 Auto, 9mm Corto, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Short, or 9x17mm. I wonder what the agenda is of the person that posted that misinformation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.228.116.228 (talk) 12:11, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Godse's statement during the trial[edit]

No discussion of Godse can be complete without including the motives behind the assassination.

I have split up the Trial and execution into 2 sections and added his answer to the charge sheet. Ecthelion 8 (talk) 09:31, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

I find the general tone of this article rather disturbing, as it is absolutely in favor of Gandhi's killer. And having such a long self-apology of himself quoted into the article body just contributes to that. --Gmacks (talk) 20:43, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

This is a page on Godse... so isn't it natural that it would highlight his points of view? Would look forward to what other editors think but i personally don't find anything disturbing in it!! Sayan rc (talk) 14:28, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Trial and death dates[edit]

The trial is talked about as occurring in 1950 but the dates of sentence and death are given as 1949. Please could someone correct this - I don't know which is in error, but one is ceertainly wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.0.15.75 (talk) 15:58, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Caption for main picture of Godse[edit]

The caption currently states: "Nathuram Godse at Mahatma Gandhi's murder trial". Surely this is ambiguous and should be rewritten - it sounds like Ghandi was the one on trial. Perhaps something like "Nathuram Godse at his murder trial". 144.132.161.142 (talk) 06:08, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Incomplete[edit]

An entire article about a man who committed a murder and no mention of his motives, his statements, the trial (there's exactly 1 sentence), statements from the trial, or the statements of the Judge who sentenced him to death. Great job suppressing the facts. After all, we dont want people forming their own opinions, especially if it differs from the govt approved view. 120.62.166.92 (talk) 16:45, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

'Hanged' vs. 'Hung'[edit]

An edit war is developing between IP 77.99.49.23 and user Ian Rose over the use of 'hanged' vs. 'hung' in this article. IP 77.99.49.23 contends that 'hung' is correct while Ian Rose contends that 'hanged' is correct. Per Hanging > Grammar, 'hanged' is the preferred usage. I've warned IP 77.99.49.23 to not cross 3RR and will leave a note with Ian Rose to discuss this issue here.  —Waldhorn (talk) 20:20, 6 March 2013

With regards to this disagreement surely the usage of the word is to increase the fluency of the text, as mentioned in Hanging > Grammar the traditional usage of the term is ′hanged′ but dictionaries also acknowledge ′hung′ and in regards to the article it makes for more fluent reading and for that reason it should be the preferred usage.  —Ctwhitelaw (talk) 01:45, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

The fact that "hung" is used occasionally doesn't alter the fact that "hanged" is the more common term, and that's what WP should reflect. In any case, consensus for changing the term would need to be gauged on a much wider scale than this one article. IMO this one should simply be protected as it is and those who want to see "hung" used for "hanged" should propose it in a more general forum, where the outcome could be effective Wiki-wide. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 06:56, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Don't you think it's a tad wrong just to use the common use for the reason its common? when i started reading the article originally it was interesting up until I saw the word "hanged" which stopped the flow of the article and made me not want to carry on.77.99.49.23 (talk) 09:41, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

I disagree that "hanged" is the more commonly used term at least it isn't is my experience. Upon reading the introduction the term "hanged" caught my attention and my initial reaction was that "hung" would be more appropriate. As I mentioned before it is in the dictionary and carries the same meaning and is in the same tense. In the interest of keeping the fluency of the article I think it should be substituted in this instance, I am not trying to set a wiki-wide precedent but I think that it would be more appropriate in this instance. Ctwhitelaw (talk) 10:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

The consultation of any encyclopedic entry related to death by hanging (Britannica or otherwise) will show that hanged is used over hung in terms of tone and of grammar so as to 1) distinguish the entry's academic tone, and 2) specify how a criminal was hung. Ex. If Joe Black died hung by the neck, it's Joe Black was hanged. If he died hung by his heels (etc.), then it's Joe Black was hung. The question of "fluency and article flow" based on personal experience flies in the face of Wiki's rules on PoV. Wiki is an encyclopedia (or an attempt to be one) and its guidelines on grammar, tone, and editing from a neutral point of view (rules easily consulted and open to anyone) ought to be enough to settle a very straightforward matter (editor Waldhorn and others have already proven their point using neutral means). --Jumbolino (talk) 14:29, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

The Oxford English Dictionary has this entry:

Hanged ppl, a, 1451(f. Hang v. + ED) 1 Now obsolete in the general sense; the form being Hung. 2 Put to death by hanging by the neck 1470.

The general sense of the word should not be confused with the specific meaning of death by hanging. To say Godse was hung begs the question where and how? But to say he was hanged means he was put to death by hanging. Graham Colm (talk) 14:49, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Hear, hear! And for those with no easy access to the OED, try the Free Online Dictionary which offers clear and pertinent examples of usage. --Jumbolino (talk) 15:15, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


Although this discussion has been put to bed, the fact that it is grammatical means my pedantry won't allow me to let pass Graham Colm's annoying error: "To say Godse was hung" does not beg any question; it might require the questions of where and how, but begging the question is a specific phrase which has been misused, as it so commonly is. Cheers, LindsayHello 08:37, 23 April 2013 (UTC)


What if it were to be changed to "hung by the neck" then it isnt left open for people to question how and so one — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.49.23 (talk) 16:07, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

There is no need for it. "Hanged" is longstanding usage both in American- and British English (and by implication, Indian English). It has immemorially meant, "executed by hanging," i.e. with a noose around the neck. Fowler&fowler«Talk» 20:11, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Godse' speech "why I killed Gandhi" can be easily found on Google[edit]

... whereas on WikiSource it was apparently eliminated. (Its previous existence there is suggested by comments above on this talk page.) 76.119.30.87 (talk) 16:24, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Either way it doesn't belong in the article.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:30, 13 April 2013 (UTC)