Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Albany, New York

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Coordinates and location checking help needed[edit]

Could anyone knowledgeable please help fix coordinates for a few listings? The NYS Capitol is surely in NYS, not in Massachusetts. And a few others jump out as having incorrect coordinates, too, if you click on the Bing map for the article. Also, as this is newly split out from National Register of Historic Places listings in Albany County, New York, based only on the NRIS database "Town/city" column, there will surely be a few errors of inclusion. In some cases a place will have been listed with Albany as the city, because that is near, when in fact the place is outside of the city. Help! doncram (talk) 22:51, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Questions from copyedit[edit]

After my brief edits to the article resulting from a hard copy edit, I have some broader issues that I would rather have some input on before addressing them:

  1. The map. I think if anything we should have the state map showing Albany's location ... that image of the county is no good for anyone outside the U.S., and I daresay for many people in the U.S. Perhaps a second map showing roughly where Albany's neighborhoods are as well.
  2. Coordinate style. I don't think there's anything mandating one style or another projectwide, which is fine, but at least we should be consistent within this list. The very first two entries go from DDºMM'SS" to DDºMM'SS.ss", then back to the first for most of the list but with a few returns to the more specific style. Personally, I think the usual DMS is fine; that's the way most people use it.
  3. En dashes. Now that the MOS has been clarified, the ArbCom has lifted the moratorium on moves to reflect the style. The two historic districts that use hyphens currently should be renamed appropriately (with a space on either side of the dash) and that move reflected here.
  4. Neighborhoods. The ones where this is blank are sort of mysterious. Can we find something to put there?
  5. The Abrams Building. Sure we can't get some picture in there if we find it?
  6. Fort Orange. I realize it's not the most glamorous thing to show, but the site is all those parking lots underneath the overpasses and flyovers at the west approach of the Dunn Bridge. We should be honest with the readers.

Daniel Case (talk) 05:38, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Possible map replacement
  1. I think we should have a close-up of Albany and possibly have a spot noted for each of the locations. I can bring that to a graphics artist and he can make it into SVG eventually. We'll work on it.
That would be in addition to a map showing where Albany is in the state, of course.

I think if we get the graphics lab involved, we should have them map the historic districts within the city as dots do not do them justice. Daniel Case (talk) 15:29, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm voting for just dots or some other point-based system, mainly because I don't want to have to do the work of tracing out the districts, especially since some of them aren't exactly... exact. upstateNYer 18:00, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Don't some of the noms have UTM coord lists? Daniel Case (talk) 07:32, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
  1. I've been using the most exact coordinates I could get. The ones that say <!--Coordinates confirmed--> are the ones I've been to or already know where they are. Some I haven't yet, but I plan to use the DDMMSS.ss style for all. Likewise, the note that is included (on all NRHP lists I think) about coords should be updated to reflect the fact that a user has clarified the coords.
  2. You can take care of the en-dash stuff. Frankly there's too many types of dashes to begin with. :)
Yes check.svg Done There were about five articles where this was an issue. Four (all historic districts) were renamed. Daniel Case (talk) 15:21, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
  1. User:Camelbinky and I are still trying to figure out what the neighborhood around Washington Ave northwest of the capitol is. We have no idea. I'll get back to you on that one.
  2. I'll snoop around and see what I can find. Maybe steal a pic from the nom and claim fair use?
  3. I'm not sure I agree with you. I think a plaque is better than the parking lot. I'd be more likely to argue not using the parking lot and just go with no photo. But the coordinates need to be updated to something more exact and I don't know exactly where Fort Orange was. upstateNYer 15:18, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
My two cents re coordinates ... I was once in the habit of entering DDºMM'SS" coords to two decimal places, but was advised a while back that this level of precision is not necessary and in fact is contrary to WP:OPCOORD. I think the guidelines there have changed a bit since then, but I think it should still be sufficient for our purposes to only enter coordinates to the SS". At least that's what I've been doing since I received that note on my talk page. --sanfranman59 (talk) 17:26, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
I see your point, but I'd rather there be no question about where something is. In this case, accuracy is most important to me. upstateNYer 20:45, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
I understand and I'm all for accuracy as well (I'm a statistician in real life, so I tend to be pretty anal about this type of thing). But by rounding to the nearest second, the very most you could be off is about 10 meters and I doubt that whatever you're using to come up with coordinates is going to be accurate to that level of precision anyway. In any case, I just wanted you to be aware that the folks at WP:GEO might object to the entry of overly precise coordinates. --sanfranman59 (talk) 21:28, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
But don't forget that regardless of the fact that DDMMSS has no decimal after the seconds, your computer and whatever reader you use is going to bring you to DDMMSS.00. So by default, you're already using the decimal mode, you just don't know it. upstateNYer 14:10, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── After reviewing OPCOORD, I would say that maybe we should be using a different level of precision depending on the listing. The historic districts do not need any decimals. But some of the smaller buildings, like the diner and James Hall's office, may (Remember that some of the sites GeoHack leads you to, particularly ACME Mapper, convert the DMS values into pure decimals, and that sometimes results in errors on what is otherwise an accurate entry. Daniel Case (talk) 15:26, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Effort to bring this to FL status[edit]

List of properties below, status listed (56 of 58 complete):

As of this edit I can confirm that every NRHP nomination cited has a page number in the footnote.

Next task: Do the same for individual buildings that I wrote the initial articles on. Daniel Case (talk) 15:33, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Watervliet Shaker National Historic District[edit]

The site of the first Shaker community is completely left off this list.

It's not within the city limits of Albany. upstateNYer 20:51, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Oldest Building in Question[edit]

In a recent TU article, Jack McEneny is purporting that Quackenbush House may in fact be as old as 1683, but doesn't provide any evidence. This tosses out the assumption that 48 Hudson is the oldest. Apparently a number of organizations are in disagreement of the age of the buildings. (I'm ignoring the commentary in the article of oldest building in Albany and oldest building built in Albany because it's irrelevant to today's records.) upstateNYer 23:09, 30 July 2014 (UTC)