Talk:National Revolutionary Army
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|WikiProject China||(Rated B-class, High-importance)|
- My Chinese is very bad, especially with the traditional characters, but does this page happen answer the question? It seems to mention several dates (1946 and 1980, at least), but my Chinese isn't good enough to be certain as to why they're important. But if I understand the passage correctly, the modern Taiwanese institutions do seem to regard the old ROC institutions as their direct predecessors. I'm also fairly certain that a large number of soldiers from the NRA crossed to Taiwan, and the Whampoa academy definitely did. As such, I personally suspect that the modern Taiwanese military is the remnants of the old NRA with a new name, but I can't seem to find any evidence one way or another. (Maybe this Google search would be of use to someone? I don't know.) If I understood Chinese better, it might be easier, but... -- Vardion 05:27, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I'm pretty illiterate but 國民革命軍 was nowhere to be found on the mnd page. The modern army is historically continuous with the NRA but they call it 陸軍 and not 國民革命軍. Then is there evidence of name change at ? Let's ask someone who will be able to read all that.--Jiang 05:59, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
- Briefly going through some of the links in that search, I noticed that this page on the MND website (reached by selecting a link reading 常備兵服役指南, whatever that means) contains the text 國民革命軍 in its first non-heading line. My rough translation of the first paragraph would be:
- The national army's mission: The National Revolutionary Army recognises the Three Principles of Sun Yat-sen, guarantees the independence, freedom, and equality of our Republic of China, and works towards peace.
- This would appear to be a sort of "Mission Statement", and I think it has something to do with either conscription or military reservists (or both). But it seems odd that they use the term 國民革命軍 in it. Again, my Chinese is poor, so I could be completely wrong - if we could find someone who can understand it a bit better, it might give some further clues. I briefly looked at some of the other hits, but didn't find anything useful - again, though, that could just be my lack of skill in Chinese. Is there anywhere where this sort of thing could be asked? -- Vardion 07:21, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Jiang dragged me here. Re: his Google hits that have years, numbers, etc:
- The first Google link says that the ROC Army stems from the Beiyang Army -- which arose from the newly established army during late Qing Dynasty (清末的新建陸軍) -- and the Guangzhou Revolutionary Government's army (廣州革命政府率領下的軍隊) had too many provincial cliques and were chaotic. In response to this, Dr. Sun Yat-sen created the Whampoa Academy to educate the "true revolutionary cadre" (真正的革命幹部) in 1924. Later on, it says that Dr. Sun appointed Chiang to be the principal of the Army Officer Academy (陸軍軍官學校校長) in that same year.
And that's all the references to the ROC Army on that page. That page does also mention the RNA, but it doesn't say what the link is. The other first few Google hits do not mention name change either.
- The second and third (identical) links talk about how Generalissmo Chiang saw that the fiscal burden of repairing damages done to the NRA were tremendous.Realizing the value of engineering corps to the national army (工兵於國軍中之價質), Chiang asks General Lin Bosen (林伯森將軍) to establish the Chinese Army Engineering School (陸軍工兵學校) in in the autumn 1930.
- The fourth link is about some revolutionary martyr from the NRC who got the posthumous title of "lieutenant general of the ROC Army" (追贈陸軍中將) in March 1947.
- The sixth link, however, explictly says "the ROC Army carries on the excellent traditions of the NRA, making the Three Principles of People a reality..." (陸軍繼承國民革命軍之優良傳統，以實現三民主義).
I didn't come across any reference to name change in those Google links.
Re: Vardion's first link. As Jiang said, there's no mentions of the NRA anywhere on that page. It only refers to the the "ROC Army in the Allied Troops' Chinese Theatre" (同盟國中國戰區陸軍) -- established in the winter of 1944 -- as the modern ROC Army's predecessor. That name was shortened post-war (June 1, 1946). --Menchi 19:27, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)
A nice detailed article, well-organized, with lots of pictures. I can't help but wonder, however, if significant expansion is still possible. LordAmeth 11:53, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Possible use of 37mm M3
Trying to dig out some information about use of 37mm Gun M3 by non-US forces. According to "Zaloga, Delf - US Anti-tank Artillery 1941-45", 1,669 pieces were supplied to the "Kuomintang Army". Is there any information of this weapon being used by the NRA ? Thanks in advance. Bukvoed 11:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for Image:HY1935 bayonet.jpg
Image:HY1935 bayonet.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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Does anyone know when the meaning of "Guojun" changed from "National Revolutionary Army" to the "Republic of China Armed Forces"? It seems that in 1950 in Taiwan, Chiang Kai-shek still refered Guojun as the NRA . Nobody today will mistake Guojun for the NRA, but does anyone know when the transition was made? Blueshirts (talk) 22:54, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
- The NRA and ROC Armed Forces are the same thing, all that changed is the name, so it wasn't strange or weird for people even now to still refer to the Armed Forces as 革命軍, though some may think of it as old fashioned or something. Based on the Chinese wiki, the name was changed in 1947 by the implementation of the Constitution. The name was changed to formally cut the ties between the KMT and the military and make it the national military or something. Liu Tao (talk) 00:03, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
German or Western?
We are having problems of trying to determine whether to keep the "Western" or "German" description when comparing the competence of NRA's Foreign-trained elite divisions. So, this discussion is to discuss the disagreement. I have tried to retain the "Western" comparison because of it's broad range including the Germans. Liu Tao (talk) 05:40, 21 April 2010 (UTC)