Talk:National Security Agency

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edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for National Security Agency:
  • Check every reference. In the history section alone, we had "Herbert Brownell" in here who was not the right Brownell. Unfortunate things like that get copied forward untold times on the internet.
  • Updates possible for Terrorist Attacks prevented by Domestic Surveillance section. Cases that possibly involved the NSA can be found here....List of unsuccessful terrorist plots in the United States post-9/11. Further research must be done to determine which cases the NSA took part in.
  • Get ready for B class.
  • Update possible regarding surveillance under Obama administration to include tapping of German Chancellor's phone. Also, DDoS attack on October 25, 2013 in response to US spying on friends/allies.
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Vandalism[edit]

Lock this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.131.20.254 (talk) 19:52, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Archiving[edit]

The archiving bot was set up so as to archive everything to Archive 35, with a max size of 1000Kb (!), leaving only the very last thread, and with no link from this page to the archive page. I have changed the parameters, manually created Archives 1 through 4, moved out some old threads that were not time-stamped, and moved two more recent threads back in. Unfortunately, Talk:National Security Agency/Archive 35 still exists. That may cause technical problems in ten years or so. Scolaire (talk) 09:45, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

National Security Agency[edit]

National as the name say but the article do not say much which nation control the agency. Please update. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.50.83.60 (talk) 08:02, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Just look:

The National Security Agency (NSA) is a (1) U.S. intelligence agency responsible for global monitoring, collection, decoding, translation and analysis of information and data (2)for foreign intelligence and (etc)

  • 1 where it spy
  • 2 for who it spy - the 2 as we know is. unspicable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.50.83.60 (talk) 08:11, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
Same IP for both comments, so I'm not sure whether the second is an answer to the first? "U.S." is, as you quote, specified right at the start, and that would be the "nation" referred to in the name. Yngvadottir (talk) 12:09, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
If Alice spy on Bob it do not mean Alice spy for Bob. The goute say for who: for foreign intelligence but is silent which nation - is. As they spy also on US highest governing body US Congress] - so knowing NSA is Alice and Bob US - do thealice spy on bob or for bob. The article opening sentence need to be changed acording to logic, semantic and sources. 73.50.83.60 (talk) 19:36, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I'm not sure I understand. It says it's a US agency; therefore it spies on behalf of the US, and that's the nation referred to in the name. Who it spies on does not change that. Yngvadottir (talk) 19:51, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
I think you're misinterpreting the first sentence. For foreign intelligence means "to gain intelligence on foreigners", not "to gain intelligence on behalf of foreigners". Maybe it could be clarified. Brycehughes (talk) 20:10, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Equation Group[edit]

I've reverted the section on the Equation Group, which is speculation reported as fact in Wikipedia's voice. It gives undue weight to a poorly-reported rumor, which is supported by a single source in specialized media. I'd argue the individual article fails WP:NOTE as well on the basis of rumor and limited reporting. Acroterion (talk) 13:02, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

@Acroterion: Especially on a politically fraught article like this, I believe Thue is wrong and we should not expect the reader to click through to a linked Wikipedia article to find references. However, since they did later provide good refs for both changes, for the moment I've covered those refs so it's easier to see what they are. I have no ability to judge the validity of the Equation Group assertion, but the source cited is a long, detailed article in a respected tech blog. And since it was only published yesterday, limited reporting may be premature as a judgement. But I suggest you AfD that article if you have strong feelings about its notability; after a week with others looking for sources, it will also be clearer whether we should be featuring the allegation here. (Fixed ping). Yngvadottir (talk) 16:28, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
From the reference: "researchers stopped short of saying Equation Group was the handiwork of the NSA—but they provided detailed evidence that strongly implicates the US spy agency." That's a pretty sketchy basis for inclusion of this theory, rumor, guess or whatever it is in the main article on the NSA. The subarticle is a little better sourced, but we're not a news source and unless other media pick up on this and flesh it out, it's premature at least to include here. I'm inclined to hold off on AfD for the subarticle to see what develops. Acroterion (talk) 17:57, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Perhaps the world's leading security expert, Bruce Schneier says that Equation Group is "almost certainly the NSA". Reuters has an anonymous source from inside the NSA confirming. That is certainly enough for us to mention it in this article as a theory. As for holding an afd about a subject which has such a solid grounding and has been so widely covered in the news, it is your right, but I predict you would make yourself look like a fool. Thue (talk) 19:35, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Schneier's article was only published today, and draws on the Reuters report. As I said above, it's premature to assess the amount of coverage. However, Thue, can I get you to add things like this only with a reference from now on? Editors - and more importantly readers - need the references to assess additions and to read more about the issue if they wish. IMO you'd have not been reverted if you had referenced the material from the start. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:26, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Leaving aside the unhelpful personalization of reasonable criticism of this addition, several concerns remain:
  • Why is this stated in Wikipedia's voice when it should be appropriately attributed to those whose opinions the statement reflects, i.e., Schneier? I would use as a model the article on Stuxnet (which quotes Schneier), which appropriately attributes and handles speculative statements. Equation Group attributes it (now) right up front, as it should.
  • I've seen other accounts of Kapersky's report, which omit the NSA speculation such as this one [1], which would imply that speculation on the source is not central to the report or to reporting on the Kaspersky report, borne out by the quote I posted above from ArsTechnica. The title of the Zdnet article, at least, is "Equation 'most advanced' cybercriminal gang recorded", not NSA = Equation. On the other hand, Wired speculates in greater depth [2] specifically about NSA involvement. The key word here is "speculates."
  • I think the subarticle is safe from a deletion discussion on the basis of GNG, there's been enough coverage in enough sources. A number of editors have fleshed out the quick stub and appropriately attributed the NSA theory, something that's absent here.
  • If this is to be attributed and kept, it needs a better home than its present somewhat random placement. Acroterion (talk) 00:59, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
  • It was quite obvious and assumed widely across the industry that NSA was behind, so I saw no reason for a specific attribution - the reference on this article in the respectable Ars Technica explicitly voiced the suspicion. People can click through to the article for more details about who thinks what. As for the placement in this article, suggestions are welcome. Thue (talk) 18:09, 18 February 2015 (UTC)