Talk:Nationalism

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Naming and content of the Ethnocentrism section[edit]

The final sentence of this section says

The term ethnocentrism is a more accurate and meaningful term.[1]

Pages 4-5 of the cited supporting source are not previewable online, and I don't know what term that source would distinguish from the term ethnocentrism.

The section has a {{See also|Ethnic nationalism}} template.

It seems to me that it would be better to title the section Ethnic nationalism, to use a {{main|Ethnic nationalism}} template, and to base the content of this section on info from the lead section of that other article.

There is a hidden comment in the section saying that it is linked from the White supremacy article. I took a quick look at that article and did not find a wikilink from there to this article. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:39, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Nationalisms without articles[edit]

I've noticed that there are a lot of nationalism articles that don't exist, but they should:

  • Afghan nationalism
  • Belarusian nationalism
  • Bulgarian nationalism
  • Chechen nationalism
  • Cuban nationalism
  • Czech nationalism
  • Danish nationalism
  • Dutch nationalism
  • Finnish nationalism
  • Georgian nationalism
  • Khmer nationalism
  • Kyrgyz nationalism
  • Lao nationalism
  • Latvian nationalism
  • Lithuanian nationalism
  • Mexican nationalism
  • Mongolian nationalism
  • Norwegian nationalism
  • Pashtun nationalism
  • Portuguese nationalism
  • Slovak nationalism
  • South African nationalism
  • Swedish nationalism
  • Thai nationalism
  • Turkmen nationalism
  • Uzbek nationalism
  • Vietnamese nationalism

Charles Essie (talk) 23:49, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

This edit, removing an item from the list above caught my eye. I was going to suggest adding Philippine nationalism to the list, but I see that it is not a WP:redlink — it's a redirect to the Filipino nationalism article, which may or may not amount the same thing (probably is in that case, but maybe not in all similar cases).

Also, there are quite a few nationalism articles not categorized into Category:Nationalism by country. A google search for allintitle:"nationalism" site:en.wikipedia.org got only 735 hits. That includes a lot of articles not tied to particular countries, but it seems like a manageable number of items to audit.

How about wikilinking all the list entries to make it clear which have articles and which do not? Alternatively, how about creating a List of Nationalisms article (maybe with a better title) which includes a By country section?. Working from and maintaining a list in a mainspace article would beat working from a list in an article talk page section. I might create such an article if no one else does that, but I'd like to see some discussion before I do that. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:58, 12 October 2014 (UTC)

proto-nationalism[edit]

What about proto-nationalism?

- On the one hand we see this as historians looking at the past and assuming nationalist identities as a fact where they may not necessarily exist. - On the other hand, we can see this as the period where a group forms a separate identity and identity-realisation occurs. I.e. they start to see themselves as part of a homogenous group and this can lead later on to nationalist feelings

-- Example of this can be found in the Netherlands of the 14th to 19th century. We see the Northern provinces secede from the South based on religion (reformation occurs and the split matches the frontline (to where the Spanish managed to beat back the Lutherans and Calvinists. Thing is, at that point, the people consider themselves one nation, divided temporarily. This feeling of a "nationalist" unity occured as they took in the Reformation and started a conflict with the Catholic rulers (roughly 16th century). However, once they're split, the North swears to reunite their "nation". Half a century later however, they no longer consider the South as part of their nationalist mentality and will even try to screw them over economically in order to benefit. The Southern inhabitant at this point considers himself part of the Southern Netherlands nationalist identity, as well as the greater Dutch, Spanish (later Austrian and French) Identity as well as part of the Christian Nation. All of those fit the Nationalist theorems.

Technically (as more and more historians agree) this should be seen as a period of proto-nationalism. Where the group identity is still flexible enough to change, yet established enough for it's members to have a sense of being part of this group. - The Southern Netherlandic Farmer HAD a concept of being a member of the Southern Netherlands. Yet he also was part of a greater Spanish Habsburg state and an even greater Christian State. With these two greater units, he had little to do: Spain had been given the Netherlands as an inheritance gift. The South was therefore not a part of the Spanish nationalist mentality. Yet that farmer could combine his being Spanish with a separate Netherlandic mentality without too much issue.

I am therefore curious why there is not even a segment on Proto-Nationalism in this article (not even a link). Since we are becoming more and more convinced that this is a step in the process that historically led to Nationalism. This could even be extant today. We can see Nationalist mentality shift all over the world (In the EU, more and more the concept of being European, gains prominence over being French, German, ...). In the US, the opposite can be seen: More and more people who would, in the past identify themselves with being American, will now use State or City identities to describe themselves (A New Yorker is an American, but will identify himself more as being from NYC, and will even look down on americans from some other places. Whereas this a hundred years ago would not be the case to such a level). In Africa we can see nationalist identities shift as nations change. Whereas we used to have the Sudanese, suddenly it is becoming very important to them if they're Southern or Northern. --91.181.60.45 (talk) 10:36, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Nationalism as a social construct[edit]

Re this edit and this revert, this doesn't look to me like an "either it is or it is not" situation. Rather, it looks like a situation where there are conflicting points of view (see e.g., [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], etc.). It looks to me as if WP:DUE ought to be considered. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 12:16, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Polish nationalism[edit]

I have suggested merging the Poland section into the Polish nationalism article - discussion at Talk:Polish nationalism. This section is the only nation-specific section in this article. It would be impractical to include summaries for all individual nations in this article so for consistency we should include none. Polly Tunnel (talk) 13:02, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Wagon piled up with corpses, is it really necessary?[edit]

I realise this can be the eventual result of ultra-nationalist behaviour, but is that photo really necessary? I'm sure there's a policy about it somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkiPoli (talkcontribs) 12:18, 12 August 2014 (UTC)