Talk:Northeast Corridor

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject United States / Delaware / District of Columbia / Massachusetts / Rhode Island (Rated B-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Delaware (marked as Mid-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject District of Columbia (marked as Low-importance).
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Massachusetts.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Rhode Island.
 
WikiProject Trains / in New York City (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Trains, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to rail transport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. See also: WikiProject Trains to do list
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Connecticut (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Connecticut, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Connecticut on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject New Jersey (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is part of WikiProject New Jersey, an effort to create, expand, and improve New Jersey–related articles to Wikipedia feature-quality standard.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject New York (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of New York on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Pennsylvania (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pennsylvania, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Pennsylvania on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Why does the NY-Boston section average only 80 kph?[edit]

According to the High-speed rail in the United States article,

Travel time between Washington and New York is 2 hours and 45 minutes, or an average speed of 83mph (130 km/h). While New York and Boston are closer together, travel time on this segment is 3 hours 39 minutes, resulting in a low average speed of only 51mph (80 km/h). With a 15-minute layover in New York, the entire end-to-end trip averages 68mph (110 km/h).

The fact that on average, the system only moves at 1/3 or less of the speed it should be capable of seems like a fairly major fact. Why doesn't the article include this information, a discussion of the reasons why this is the case, and of the prospects of improvement? -- pde (talk) 15:45, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

There are several reasons as to why service from Boston to New York is so slow. Firstly, the former New Haven's Shore Line consists of many twists and turns, as well as infrastructure that dates back to the depression era between New York and Providence. This problem rears its big ugly head south of Stamford because the state of Connecticut owns these tracks, which upgrades are funded and performed by the state of Connecticut, not Amtrak. The other reason, though not nearly as big a contributor as to why the Boston-New York section is so slow, is because Metro-North does not allow Acela Express trains to tilt in a curve, limiting them to 90mph/145kph. Mcoov (talk) 03:59, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Clocker[edit]

I'd like to dispute the characterization of Clocker service as "part of Regional service". (I note that Clocker (Amtrak) now redirects to Regional (Amtrak). The Clocker has its own identity (it is not referred to as Regional service in the National Timetable), history (the very first Amtrak train on A-Day was a Clocker out of Penn Station), and operations (NJT passes are honored, NJT ALP-46s are on loan to Amtrak to operate the trains until NJT takes over the service in 2006.)

Especially in light of the looming takeover, the separate identity should be maintained, both on this page, and on a non-redirecting Clocker (Amtrak), which of course will be edited and moved as appropriate come 1 January 2006. I will refrain from making the edit myself until there is a concurring opinion, out of respect for my fellow editor. --CComMack 00:21, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You seem to more about it that I do; I was just going with Amtrak's site (which lists Clockers on the Regional page). Do Clockers stop at every station, like Regionals? --SPUI 00:28, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Clockers make every station stop between 30th Street and Penn Station NY, including more rarely used ones like North Philly, Cornwells Heights, and New Brunswick, in contrast to Regionals, which usually skip those stops.
Y'know, I should just buckle down and write the article now, shouldn't I.  :-) --CComMack 01:34, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Originally, The Clockers were a series of trains that connected New York and Philadelpha on a hourly schedule, meaning that they departed hourly on the hour. They supplemented the Boston-Washington; New York-Washington; New York-Trenton Commuter Trains, and New York-New Brunswick Communiter Trains, and shared track space with the numerous through trains to destinations outside of the corridor. The Clockers all stopped at North Philadelphia, Trenton, Princeton Junction, New Brunswick, and Newark. I am talking BEFORE World War II. SSG Cornelius Seon (Retired) 01:46, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Clockers are NOT part of Regional. Remember they were to be Acela Commuter? No matter, in 6 months, they'll be NJT trains. --N5UWY/9 - plaws 22:11, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

And, of course what I meant by "in 6 months, they'll be NJT trains" was "in 4 weeks, they'll be NJT trains". Last Amtrak Clocker was this past Friday - 4 new NJT trains from Trenton this morning. I've updated the Clocker page appropriately, though it really needs a section on the Pennsy Clockers. --N5UWY/9 - plaws 21:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

NEC endpoints and branches[edit]

If you look at http://www.gao.gov/archive/1995/rc95151b.pdf, you'll see that, officially, the NEC includes the Keystone Corridor, the Empire Corridor, and even the Atlantic City line, even though Amtrak only owns 10 miles of the Empire and 0 miles of the AC line. Any ideas on how to note that? --N5UWY/9 - plaws 22:10, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Amtrak "serves" the Altantic City Rail Terminal via the NEC. However, the actual service is limited to ticket sales. If you purchase a ticket to ACY on amtrak.com or from a QuikTrak machine, you will recieve a separate ticket for $7.25 from PHL to ACY; it is an Amtrak ticket but the NJTransit ticket collectors accept them without asking questions. The trains are all operated by NJTransit. As far as I can tell there is no schedule coordination. But the schedule is listed in the system timetable, and Amtrak does own 6 miles of the Atlantic City line (see page 6 of the GAO document you linked to). --Adam613 23:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

It appears that oficially, possibly at another level, the NEC only goes from Washington to NYC. From NYC to Boston, the lines are the Amtrak Hellgate Line (where does the NEC become the HG?), Metro-North New Haven Line, and Amtrak Shore Line. The other Amtrak lines are the Chicago Line, Post Road Branch, "Harrisburg - Philadelphia", Main Line (Shore to Atlantic City), Hartford Line, and Michigan Line (?).[1] --NE2 19:24, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

According to this huge PDF, the Hellgate Line goes at least to Harold Interlocking (Sunnyside Yard). It's not clear what the name of the line between Penn Station and Harold, dispatched jointly by Amtrak and the LIRR, is called. Maybe it's just the East River Tunnels. --NE2 12:59, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
This list transcribed from the 1975 Conrail Final System Plan (should it be moved out of the user space and into the talk space, like to Talk:Consolidated Rail Corporation/Amtrak lines acquired from Conrail?) shows that the Hellgate Line does go to Penn Station, assuming no change since 1975. The line from Penn Station to DC is shown as the "Main Line", but that term is also used for the Philadelphia to Harrisburg Main Line. --NE2 13:08, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

References[edit]

  1. ^ Conrail System Map Showing The Proposed Allocation Of Conrail Lines & Rights, July 9, 1997

Love the map![edit]

Only one nit: the section from the Rhode Island state line to South Station is owned by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Operated, dispatched, etc, by Amtrak, but owned by the Commonwealth. --N5UWY/9 - plaws 21:57, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Map still needs updating. --N5UWY/9 - plaws 17:45, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Height Restrictions[edit]

It would be nice to have a list of areas too short for the bi-level cars, and what their heights are. JNW2 20:20, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Amtrak and Massachusetts[edit]

The article says "Amtrak now operates and maintains the portion in Massachusetts", apparently without any citation. Is that true now that Amtrak does not operate the MBTA commuter rail trains? JNW2 07:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Number of parallel tracks[edit]

It would be nice if this article clearly stated how many parallel tracks there are in the various parts of the Northeast Corridor. JNW2 (talk) 02:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Bridges[edit]

A list of movable bridges in the Northeast Corridor might be a nice thing to have. (Or maybe a list of all the bridges clearly showing whether each is movable.) It would be nice if such a list stated how many tracks wide each bridge is. JNW2 (talk) 02:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Electrification[edit]

It would be nice to let people know this is an AC line, and where are some famous "neutral sections" along the line

Infrastructure[edit]

The history and station listings are good, but there's a huge gap in the article: the lack of information about infrastructure. Information on the current electrification (not when it came about, but information on it) is currently scattered in the Amtrak's 25 Hz traction power system, Amtrak's 60 Hz traction power system, and New Haven Line and some bits can be copied. Information about the welded rail, signaling, and number of tracks is also buried elsewhere or not present. I don't really have the expertise to do much, especially with the electricity section, but perhaps someone else? Pi.1415926535 (talk) 18:44, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. I will be doing a review of the Infrastructure section over the next week. PeterEastern (talk) 08:05, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

K Tower caption[edit]

K Tower is not the only interlocking tower on the Northeast corridor south of Philadelphia. Here is one in Delaware: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=39.765771,-75.485347&spn=0.000593,0.001206&t=h&z=20&vpsrc=6 UNCMike (talk) 04:18, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

There are several towers along the line left over from the PRR days, but they are no longer operational. Amtrak's Philadelphia control center (upstairs in the 30th St. Station) controls the NEC between DC and just west of Trenton, NJ. See http://www.amtrakhistoricalsociety.org/p9706.htm Caseyjonz (talk) 04:43, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

I think the K tower photo caption should say "..only remaining staffed interlocking tower..." then. I would think that the 'no longer operational' interlocking towers are in fact operational, they just aren't staffed. They probably house signal and switch instrumentation, parts storage, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by UNCMike (talkcontribs) 19:48, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Statistics incongruent?[edit]

Or am I just tired?

In the "Current Rail Services" under subheading intercity passenger services, the first paragraph says:

According to a 2003 study, Amtrak accounted for about 14% of all intercity trips between Northeast Corridor cities and its branches. The rest of these intercity trips are taken by airline, automobile, or bus.[30] A 2011 study estimated that in 2010 Amtrak carried 6% of the Boston-Washington corridor traffic, compared to 80% for automobiles, 8-9% for intercity bus, and 5% for airlines.[31] Amtrak's market share of passenger traffic between New York City and Boston has grown from 20 percent to 54 percent since 2001, and 75 percent of travelers between New York City and Washington D.C. go by train

Is this confusing? L.cash.m (talk) 10:50, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

  • In a word, yes. I think the problem is that we're mixing and matching stats from all three major endpoints. Mackensen (talk) 12:11, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Chronological order[edit]

Any objection to a change in the order of the sections? As of now it goes history --> future --> current. Without arguing importance of each section as a reason for the order, I believe that chronological order would make the article flow better and thus provide a better experience for the reader. L.cash.m (talk) 20:21, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Sound good. Current --> history --> future is also workable as it puts the part the most readers want first. I use both; see Shore Line East for an example. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 00:27, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Station Listing Inconsistencies[edit]

The Station Listing table contain seemingly random interlockings and yards (they mainly appear in the New Jersey portion). I say to remove this since most people don't really consider these stations (I know they are according to the timetable, but the layperson doesn't). Also, if you include every single interlocking, this is going to be one huge table.

Also, the table contradicts itself with division post. There is one in Hamilton, then one is mentioned in Trenton. I don't know if it was ever in Hamilton, but I know it was in Trenton and was moved to HOLMES interlocking (Holmesburg Junction).

Kc2hmv (talk) 03:25, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Concur on removing interlockings and yards, as well as long-abandoned stations. I'd like to think about creating a separate article - List of Northeast Corridor stations and junctions or something like that - that would list all junctions, former stations, etc. That's interesting historical information worth having, but it's too detailed for the main article. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 04:28, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Agreed. There's a constant risk of scope/information creep. Say, while I've got everyone's attention, I raised a similar issue at Template talk:Northeast Corridor and I'd like to get some input. Mackensen (talk) 11:34, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
I've forked the everything list to List of Northeast Corridor infrastructure. As of right now I see no reason not to list historical stations on there as well - at very least stations which lasted into the Penn Central days when the corridor was first unified. I've reduced the article list down to the 108 active stations, plus ZOO Junction and C Interlocking which are necessary as milepost reset points. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 15:47, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
I just found out about this now, and you created it back in July 2013. In any case I added the navbox and an extra category. Maybe there's a way you could add a link to the list in the navbox, I don't know. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 14:20, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Miner's Lane death[edit]

Hi, Pi.1415926535 (nice handle!). I can offer a few reasons for moving the discussion of the 2005 death at the Miner's Lane grade crossing, including 1) this is already a very long article, and 2) the history of the Northeast Corridor includes many deaths, by car-train collision, during construction, falling on tracks, etc., and so why give particular attention to this one? I generally dislike deleting well-cited info, so I decided to move this tidbit into the notes. Speaking of which, I'm not sure I understood your edit summary ("the article does not use prose footnotes"). Um, so? Plenty of WP articles do; I don't see any reason why this one shouldn't. PRRfan (talk) 18:27, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, it currently doesn't use footnotes. Text footnotes and citations are best kept separate, so the Miners Lane accident shouldn't just be thrown in that list - you'd need to set up a separate Notes architecture. I'm also very wary of text footnotes in general; because you don't instantly see them at the bottom of the page as you would with a book, it's not immediately obvious to newcomers to scroll over the letter to view it.
The article is long, but not unwieldy. The station list will shrink when I or someone else clear out all the interlockings and former stations in the list, and some of the other lists may be able to be cleaned up as well. Sooner or later I'm going to get really bored at work and fork the history section to the dedicated article it deserves.
Contentwise, the Miners Lane accident is one of the most notable incidents on the corridor during the Amtrak era, due to the effects it has had on Acela operations and grade crossing protections elsewhere. (Anecdotally, the ICTS system now used to allow 110mph operations through grade crossings in the Midwest is a direct response to this incident.) Several other high-profile accidents on the corridor should probably also get mentions: Gunpow in 1987 and Back Bay in 1990 for how they influenced automatic train protection systems, and Fairfield due to the publicity and the questions it's bringing up about maintenance. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 00:40, 20 June 2013 (UTC)
Well, that all makes sense, and it would be great to get the "so what?" of the accident into the article. But as currently formatted, the Miners Lane sentences kinda stick out like a sore thumb. Any ideas? PRRfan (talk) 13:12, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

P&W owns part of the corridor?[edit]

[citation needed]!

The entire corridor is owned by Amtrak except Boston to the RI state line which is owned by the Commonwealth of Mass (Amtrak manages) and New Haven to the New York state line (or CP SHELL, I never remember) which is owned by State of Connecticut. I guess I need to dig up some cites and fix. --plaws (talk) 13:59, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

The operational pattern of the movable bridges[edit]

It seem to me after reading this and several sub-articles that some of the movable bridges are normally closed and open for water traffic and some are open and close for train traffic. It is implied, but not stated, that the Amtrak Old Saybrook – Old Lyme Bridge is operated in the later mode, possibly the only one on the corridor? The Shore Line East article implies that the Thames River Bridge and Mystic River Railroad Bridge also operate this way, but the Thames River Bridge article implies that it is closed expect for river traffic. This needs to be clarified. Zginder 2014-06-11T01:02:22Z

North to south routing[edit]

The article currently is almost exclusively written with the line beginning in the north and going south. I just edited the infobox to use this convention, previously the ownership was listed from the south to the north. Considering that the mileposts start in the south should the article be switched to south to north. Zginder 2014-06-12T19:05:06Z