Talk:Northwest Airlines Flight 253

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Good article Northwest Airlines Flight 253 has been listed as one of the Engineering and technology good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

"screaming about Afghanistan" witness referring to separate incident on Christmas Day (CNN)[edit]

There were 2 incidents on Christmas Day both on Northwest/Delta flights from Amsterdam to Detroit. Only WXYZ in Detroit reported this which was covered on CNN. However, lots of online articles incorrectly attributed the "screaming about Afghanistan" to Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab.

Eye witness describing man "screaming about Afghanistan"-

CNN report from 12/25/2009-


MICHAEL ROSENFIELD: We have also learned about another incident, also on board a flight from Amsterdam to Detroit this afternoon. Another passenger was arrested on that flight as well. Federal officials and local law enforcement here don’t think the two incidents were connected, but it also did happen on a flight from Amsterdam to Detroit. A passenger was yelling pro-Afghanistan statements, anti-American statements as well. He was throwing food on passengers in the back part of the plane. He was taken into custody, but law enforcement officials here on the ground tell us they think that it was just a drunk passenger. They do not think these two incidents were connected. Live in Detroit, I’m Michael Rosenfield. Back to you.

ALI VELSHI (CNN ANCHOR): Mike, was that a — was that a Northwest flight as well coming in from Amsterdam, or was that a different flight?

ROSENFIELD: Yeah, that was also a Northwest Delta flight also coming in from Amsterdam to Detroit. Another incident on that case. But again, law enforcement officials think that they were not connected. But, uh, pretty coincidental that both happened on the same route on the same day.


Am I the only one who finds the caption of the lead pic ("... surrounded by emergency vehicles just after it landed in Detroit.") odd, given that the pic only shows two vehicles?--Epeefleche (talk) 06:05, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

It was cut off at the small resolution :( Feel free to reword it, as I am lacking a better caption.  fetchcomms 03:33, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

General flight route vs. Specific flight that crashed[edit]

I think the title of this article should be changed. This article is titled simply "Northwest Airlines Flight 253". As such its topic could be:

  • 1) Information regarding the general regularly scheduled flight route between Amsterdam and Detroit that Northwest Airlines used to run or
  • 2) The specific flight following that route which crashed.

However this article, as written currently, is only about about the specific flight. Someone could be searching for information about the general flight route and the title of this article doesn't make it clear it's not about that.

I think there are two possible solutions:

  • 1) We could change the title of this article to "Northwest Airlines Flight 253 Plane Crash".
  • 2) We could have this article be about the both the generally scheduled flight route and the flight that crashed since they are obviously intimately related. If we do that, however, I think the article should at least start out with a paragraph about the flight route in general before getting into the specific flight that crashed.

Lawyer2b (talk) 11:48, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Aviation/Style_guide#Accidents for an explanation on that point. This article shouldn't be named after a flight number at all, and especially not this article which wasn't even using a Northwest liveried plane, but try convincing various people that the aviation incident style guide is utterly useless to the reader, and is actually totally at odds with how titles are chosen for every other topic on the pedia. But that's another story. MickMacNee (talk) 11:54, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
If you look at the archive, two requested moves have already failed. The plane was Delta liveried but was still officially a Northwest flight. Feel free to add whatever info about the original route to this article--the route no longer flies for NWA 253 though, I believe. If you look on other similar accident/terrorist attack articles, they are similar to this one.  fetchcomms 03:36, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
The route status is irrelevant, Wikipedia does not write articles about flight numbers or routes. It is one of the many hopeless aspects of this pointless naming convention, that people continually think the intro has to be about a route, because that is how any normal reader reads it. That is probably why some articles are probably wrong, as they get mistakenly 'corrected' by casual editors. And I know all about the Delta issue, I've mentioned it enough times in those failed move requests, but again, in no small part due to this crazy naming convention, whenever it is clarified in the article, somehow it finds its way out again. MickMacNee (talk) 05:26, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Vcites broken[edit]

Somebody went through with apparently a script and converted almost every "cite" to "vcite" without changing cite's firstN= lastN= syntax to vcite's authorN= syntax. So the vcites, especially with multiple authors, lack any visible author attribution. Arg! Fixing this, I think, is an important precursor to good article status. --Lexein (talk) 04:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Dangit, thought I caught all of them through a regex (I didn't use a script because I'm too fail to write them :x). I'll get this done right away! fetch·comms 00:32, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Done, I hope. I must've forgotten to run through those numbered params through my regex. It was earlier suggested that I use vcite templates in order to reduce the page size (see FAC page). fetch·comms 01:05, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Thanks - much better. It would be a boon if you published that regex (& the name of the tool used) somewhere. Good regexes are a pain to write, and are so often lost in the mists of time. Vcite's claimed value is in reducing cpu burden on WP servers vs cite - the effect on page size is minimal IMHO. Vcite's use of square brackets is improper, but it's fine otherwise. --Lexein (talk) 13:37, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
I don't recall the code any more... I stole it from some site earlier :( fetch·comms 20:12, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Al Qaida??[edit]

"The flight was the target of a failed al-Qaeda bombing attempt ". How do you "know" or document the claim that it _was_ an "al-Qaeda" attempt? Nunamiut

Because we have used reliable sources to back that claim up later in the article. Citing material in the lede that is already sourced later on is not required, as the lede is a summary. fetch·comms 14:58, 1 September 2010 (UTC)