Talk:Nubian people

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Nasty politics. Why you removed the Nubian wedding picture ?[edit]

Removing or replacing the Nubian wedding picture that depict the actual features of the Nubian people and their culture by a picture of a woman of another African ethnic group that has different features and culture of the actual Nubians, is racist and will not be ignored. I will alert other Nubians if this agenda is not rectified.

The picture File:Anglo-Egyptian_Sudan_Nubian_woman.jpg comes from the Library of Congress. It is titled Nubian woman, Anglo-Egyptian Sudan. See here and further details are here. It is part of their Frank and Frances Carpenter Collection (see here). Sean.hoyland - talk 11:19, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
So it was from Library of the Congress !!!..This confirm "the real Political" agenda behind all of this article.Contemporary features of the Nubian people totally differe from the racist picture of colonialist era that you posted.The Anglo- Egyption-Sudan Picture was depicted from a racist colonial mentality that actively try to misrepresent the actual diversity of the various Black African peoples in general. This ignorantly and arrogantly concluded that the most diverse of the world's racial groups, THE BLACK AFRICANS ,can be divided into two groups only.Namely Hermetic groups and Nilotic groups. This is obviously a racially driven simplification since the black Africans are the most diverse an ethnically rich racial groups of all the world's racial population.
Should we really believe that your reference that you cited come from an era of racism towards Africans or from an era calibrated the rich Black African's diversity in terms of culture an ethnicity ??
Second and final question is, why did you replace the wedding picture with an archive picture that comes from period of colonization?..obviously there is a large pool of pictures that is available to actually shows what the Nubian people ACTUALLY look like.
I hope that sense will prevail and you will repost the original wedding picture that was in the article.

Cheers

The picture probably was influenced by a racist colonial mentality and there was probably a racially driven simplification involved whether intentional or not. The picture certainly comes from an era of racism towards Africans. I don't think any of that means the photo should be excluded. History is history and this is an encyclopedia. I didn't replace the wedding picture. I don't see why we can't have both images. Sean.hoyland - talk 12:40, 25 January 2013 (UTC)


Excuse me please, why you do not show my comment to others? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎89.211.160.29 (talkcontribs) 16:03, 25 January 2013

What do you mean by 'why you do not show my comment to others? And please stop removing your signature. And don't remove my edits or anyone else's. As I said before you removed my edit, if you could find some here or at Commons we can use, please suggest them. But without attacking other editors. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 12:20 pm, Today (UTC+0)
Viewing the Article's history everyone can clearly see that I do not remove edits I just bring back the replaced Nubian wedding picture which was previously there in this article. The question is why do you keep removing it for? Plus I don't know why our dialogue in this comment is not being shown to everyone except me, you and wiki staff?!!
Even if we disagree, we should atleast keep our dialogue this comment open and viewed to everyone, so that the users can see, read them and make up their minds !!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.211.160.29 (talk) 05:31, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
Again I don't know what you mean. Everyone in the world can see this dialogue. Wiki staff are fund-raisers, Information technology specialists, etc and are completely irrelevant to this discussion. Dougweller (talk) 07:39, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

There is no proof that that picture is of an actual Nubian wedding, there are no sources, no references absolutely nothing that suggest its an actual Nubian wedding and not a wedding from another African ethnic group, from my personal opinion it looks more Somali than Nubian. So if you have proof that its a Nubian wedding then please share it.~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.253.95 (talk) 19:17, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Lol.. Is there anyproof that this racist Anglo- Egyption-Sudan Picture from colonialist era that you posted is an actual Nubian? does she look Nubian? she does not even look like for instance the example of some of Nubian people given by wikipedia in the "Prominent Nubians " section of the article (e.g Anwar Sadat,Mohamed Mounir,Gaafar Nimeiry,Mohammed Wardi, etc) .
Everyone knows who are the Nubians how they looks like. DO NOT REJOICE as it is “Intellectual defeat that you must ultimately be prepared for.ALL these fallacies that you and others had been advancing and putting forward will be exposed in due course.In the mean time if u sincerely believe and can prove your lies, then ENJOY YOURSELF FOR A LITTLE WHILE.
C U LATER
 ;+D — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.211.50.131 (talk) 04:45, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

unsourced claims[edit]

I deleted a number of claims that were not associated with a source. These were that the nubians were famous for their great military their advanced civilization that they used poison tipped arrows, and that they were known for their great wealth. These claims were all linked to a source that discussed the importance of the bow in nubian culture. I left relevant information about nubian archers, but first of all saying the nubians were known for their great wealth, advanced civilization, and great military is unsourced and therefore has no place in this entry. Second of all, this is opinion based, and it could be argued that many ancient nations would have been known for their great wealth, advanced civilization and great military. I also deleted a claim that the nubians were known for their 23 letter alphabet. The citation listed also does not mention anything about a 23 letter alphabet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.190.174.107 (talk) 01:39, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

I once again deleted the same claims made about Nubia that are not verified by any cited source. If these claims are true it is the responsibility of the editor to find a source. I will continue to delete unsourced claims that, quite frankly, are not worded with a neutral, academic, mindset. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.190.174.107 (talk) 21:24, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

These claims keep popping up, and I will continue to delete them. I'm only posting this so admins don't look at my behavior and think I'm trying to vandalize this page. I'm deleting parts of the introduction because they are not cited, and make claims that impact the integrity of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.190.174.107 (talk) 22:01, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I did some research and many of the claims on the front of this article are completely made up. I've apparently lost my ability to edit this page for deleting inaccurate information but can someone please make this page as accurate as possible? It's reasons like this that wikipedia gets criticized as an unreliable source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.190.174.107 (talk) 22:07, 18 March 2011 (UTC)


I'll take a look tomorrow. There's no reason you can't edit the page, it's not protected. Is it just the claims above you are referring to?Dougweller (talk) 22:16, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes I am reffering to the information starting with "Nubians are famous for" (which isn't neutrally worded to begin with) and I was unable to edit because apparently someone suspended my IP address because they felt deleting completely unsourced information is vandalism. I'm at home for break now so I'm going to delete the information once more. I welcome anyone to do some research and it's easy to find that these assertions are only available on wikipedia and websites that have copy pasted from this page and spread the unreliable information. I am quite frankly shocked at how willing this community is to allow these unsourced claims to persist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.199.162.154 (talk) 01:09, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I think I've been a bit rash, and therefore I think I've found a middle ground. Instead of deleting the information I simply added a "citation needed" header. I feel like this resolves the issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.199.162.154 (talk) 01:11, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Apparently there is someone out there who is fond of manipulating information and deleted my "citation needed" additions. The source cited said nothing other than Nubians are known for their skill with the bow. Everything else that is attributed to the source appears to be a complete fabrication. This is silly, if you are this biased on an issue you should not be editing the page in the first place.

Your citation needed additions were updated by a bot not a human to include the date. They are still there. You can see what the bot did by clicking this link. Please remember to sign your posts with 4 ~ Sean.hoyland - talk 10:43, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Nubian Dark Skin[edit]

It sais that all ancient nubians are depicted with very dark skin but some of them particularly the leaders are depicted with skin the same as the Egyptians. It is actually racist to put they are depicted with very dark skin in the article as it does not say ancient greeks are depicted with very light skin. I'm changing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.3.177.104 (talk) 22:38, 28 March 2010 (UTC) you say some of the leaders were depicted with skin the same as the Egyptians. what skin tone were the Ancient Egyptians? they all started off with dark skin until the envaisions of lighter skin people.

Nubian languages[edit]

I added a link to Nubian languages. The reference re language & Nobiin should be clarified with reference to the latter (which is well-written). --A12n 16:02, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Nubian Princess - use in North American Black Vernacular Language[edit]

I added the following to the article -

"North American blacks will sometimes refer to beautiful black women (usually dark-skinned) as Nubian (adjective) or a Nubian Princess (noun). These terms are used regardless of the woman's actual African origin. It is considered a compliment."

I dont think it means just dark skinned african/ african american women I think it means all skin tones of women of African descent. I think many people think that all africans are dark skinned and look like the Bantu ethnic groups.


I came to the Nubian article in the first place because I was familiar with this usage and I wanted to know who the real Nubians were. I believe this addition is relevant to the article. I am white but I believe my description of the slang is accurate. If you feel it does not belong in the article please discuss it here. -Jonathan in California —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.127.73.172 (talk) 03:07, 18 April 2007 (UTC).

The use of Nubian to refer with pride to African heritage is valid for inclusion. "Nubian Princess," which isn't, is just derived from it by analogy with JAP, &c. -LlywelynII (talk) 14:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Religion?[edit]

Nubians are no more likely to be Coptics than they are to be Scientologists. Virtually all Coptics in Aswan are of pure Egyptian descent, with no admixture from Nubians, Arabs, French, etc.

Seconded. 70.20.18.122 (talk) 02:01, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
They're much more likely to be Coptics than another (possibly more litigious) religion. That said, they currently aren't. -LlywelynII (talk) 14:28, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Is the Nubian wedding in the picture a Christian wedding, a Muslim wedding, or something else? Michael Hardy 18:41, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Muslim, as the some of the women in the back are wearing the characteristic hijab. Also, I don't believe there are any Christian Nubian communities today. If I recall correctly, the Nubians had all become Muslim by the Ottoman period (16th century). — Zerida 19:02, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
with all my respect to wikipedia but thats bullshit there is no coptic nubians iam originally from nubia!!!!!and even if there is 1 or 2% thats not a significant percentage to put coptic christianity in the section of religion!!!!otherwise alot of ethnics which have a significant muslim minorities is being neglected in wikipedia in the religion section ,in fact you arent as neutral as you claim and thats the truth
It's true that there aren't any Christian communities left today, but the Coptic community lasted into the 18th or 19th century. The article much more on Meroe, Nobadia, Makuria, their conversion to Christianity, their obligation under the Baqt to provide hundreds of slaves to the Muslim caliphate each year, the eventual inheritance of the kingdom by dynasties of Arab sheikhs whose lineage was more prized than the Nubians' own, the Bosnian garrisons, and fate during the Mahdi revolt, etc. -LlywelynII (talk) 14:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

A little spare, eh?[edit]

I've been told by professors and some of my fellow students that these people invented civilization and the Greeks stole it. Also, that they built the pyramids and were amazing scientists and engineers and invented everything that modern Europeans now claim. It's even mentioned in a rap song. Why isn't this mentioned in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.139.108.134 (talk) 13:07, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

You are free to add additional text. Make sure you are adding factual objective information to this article. If you have opinions or information that is in dispute, feel free to add that to the 'controvery' section of this article. If no such section exists, please create one.
The origins of the Nubians, Ethiopians, and Egyptions has always been debated. All opinions are welcomed - regardless of race, color, or creed. One must be careful in trying to attach modern labels (black, white, arab) onto ancient groups. Certainly the culture & dress of the Nubians is closer to that of other African groups that Arab groups - necklace, braided hair, female circumcision, and etc. However there was a later Arab influence from the north.
I believe the situation is best represented by the following anology. What if the popluation of the North America suddenly disappears overnight along with all texts - only photos and statues remained? How would a foreigner that never observed an 'American' described them based on the photos and statues? They would most likely describe Americans as having descended from a similar group in Europe and being white - being in America first. They would consider all the advances in American culture to be soley a European influence. There would be no references to African-Americans or Native Americans outside of a migration from South America or slavery.
So when you look at Nubia and Egypt, it is a similar situation. Certainly, the early civilizations were distinctly African and a darker people. But migration & wars changed that. -Leon Spencer, Animis Opibusque Parati 12:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, the article could use mention of those ideas (or a link to another article about the Black Power movement and its academic support). Just be sure to note the sources of the information and approach it from the perspective of a current controversy rather than factual statements about the past. -LlywelynII (talk) 14:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

civilization is an abstraction and therefore cannot be stolen. Ideas can be stolen, but since ideas are not material their function will not cease once they are stolen. The idea that Europeans "stole" nubian civilization is not only absurd, it is racist. Furthermore there is no evidence the Nubians constructed the pyramids. Why would Nubians create structures for Egyptian kings to be buried in Egyptian territory? If the Nubians built the pyramids wouldn't it make sense for them to be in Nubia??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.190.174.107 (talk) 21:43, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

According to Wikepedia, pyramids were found in Nubia. To be civil is based on one's ideas and beliefs. Ideas and beliefs are passed down from generation to generation. This is known as one's traditions and customs. If a group of people can be stolen, how then is it racist for a civilization to be stolen? Is it racist for one to suggest that copyright can be and has been infringed? The idea that Europeans "stole" nubian civilization is not racist. Whether it is true is the argument. VividTruth (talk) 15:13, 21 March 2011 (UTC)VividTruth

The argument isn't whether or not Nubians built pyramids. It is well known that Nubians build pyramids, however there is no evidence that supports the idea that Nubians build the pyramids in Egypt. There is equally scant evidence that the people from greece took Nubian ideas considering they have different religions, architecture, and artistic designs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.199.162.154 (talk) 01:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Lead sentence[edit]

The following discussion is taken from my talk page regarding the lead sentence --SnakeEyeJazz 16:19, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Information.svg Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. However, Wikipedia is not censored, not even to remove profanity or pornography. Please do not remove or censor information that is relevant to the article, as you did to Nubians. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. - Jeeny (talk) 15:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

The edit you refer to was my removal of the phrase "and are believed to be the first human race" from the the lead sentence of the article, which reads "The Nubians are an ethnic group in southern Egypt and northern Sudan and are believed to be the first human race." This statement was supported by an entry at touregypt.net which states "The Nubians are believed to be the first human race on earth, and most of their customs and traditions were adopted by the ancient Egyptians" whilst citing no sources or naming the author.

This has nothing to do with censorship, but has everything to do with improving the scholarship and quality of writing of the article. I will replicate my edit, this time leaving a note on the discussion page. --SnakeEyeJazz 16:16, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Physical Continuity[edit]

"The Nubians today, as well as the Arabic-speaking groups of northern Sudan, all show a clear physical continuity with the ancient Nubians." What does that mean, what are the physical features of ancient Nubians? If anyone knows please answer! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.222.54.16 (talk) 14:46, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

On any reading, the sentence doesn't mean anything. The description of ancient Nubians in the article says they had dark skin and wore hooped earrings. Are we suggesting that present-day Nubians all wear hopped earrings? In any case, the ancinet Nubian description is unsourced and can't be relied upon until someone can verify it
The statement that modern Nubians look like ancinet Nubians is itself unsourced, and would be a challenge to verify as we have no clear physica description of ancient Nubians and no explanation of modern Nubian appearance either. It would probably be possible to get materials together describing the common physical attributes of modern Nubians, and this would be worth adding tot hea rticle. But the research is needed before the sweeping generalisation, which is what the sentence in the article is.
I've taken it out for now. Any other comments or opposing views and welcome. Euryalus (talk) 19:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
  • it´s a anacronism..anciet northern/northeastern nubia was very different to modern day..the nubians of n/ne was meds/anciet egyptians and the nubians of south/southwest was negroids..in the present day in the region have very mullatoes (the fusion of caucasoids meds of north/etnicamente anciet egyptians with negroid slaves females of south; e vide o mit egipcio com forte carga dali); pelas pinturas devia haver uma zona mulatoid intermediaria entre a zona caucasoide e a negroide do sul da nubia; pinturas que mostram graduações aos poucos em diferentes epocas e espaços.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.114.202.63 (talk) 16:03, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Broad use of term to refer to all black people[edit]

My understanding is that, historically, the term "Nubian" has been used to describe all black Africans, in much the same way that "Turk" was used as a catch-all term for Muslims. However, there is no mention of this useage in the article. If I am not mistaken and the useage is/was common, then a mention of it should be added to the article. Also, it would be interesting to see if this is true only of English-speaking regions, or whether other parts of the world have referred to blacks using their word for Nubians. I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that in the Arab world all blacks are commonly referred to as Nubians, so if anyone could verify that it would be good.
Static Sleepstorm (talk) 09:21, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Complex discussion. You need to look further than what modern popular views might understand as Nubian, black, Egyptian, Kemetic, or African. Egyptian glyphs describe the known population of Africa, what area of Africa they knew, as consisting on three major groups - Lybians, Egyptians, and Nubians. Keep in mind these aren't racial groups. And this grouping is for that particular time and/or dynasty. As demographics change, wars, and foreign influences impact areas, people view themselves differently.
See wiki article Racial characteristics of ancient Egyptians. This includes a glyph depicting groups.
You know what I find interesting, you cannot have an 'Out of Africa' evolution theory while at the same time denying Africa influence throughout Africa and the Middle East. If anything, we need to be consistent.
That's just my point of view. -Spencer,Leon 17:54, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Just as a logical point, humanity might well have evolved in Africa and spread from there across the globe without African culture even developing, let alone having a pervasive influence throughout the region. That said, Nubia and Ethiopia did have extensive trade links and influenced Egypt and Arabia extensively.
On the original point, no, Ethiopia ("land of the burnt faced people") was the broad term in Greek; Libya in Latin (apparently originally from an Egyptian tribal name); al-Sudan ("land of the black people") in Arabic. "Nubian" being used as a synonym for "African" comes from America in the 60s as far as I know; still, the idea deserves inclusion. -LlywelynII (talk) 14:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Endonym(s)[edit]

On most articles for ethnic groups, in brackets after the name is first stated the endonyms and other common exonyms are given. Does anyone know what Nubians are called in Arabic or in the Nubian languages? The Arabic-language wikipedia appears not to have a page on Nubians, so that doesn't help.
Static Sleepstorm (talk) 09:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I asked at the wordreference forums (http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=787781) and apparently "Nubian" in Arabic is نوبي (nuubi). I shall add this to the page. - Static Sleepstorm (talk) 23:37, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
At least in Nubiin the Nubian name is Nobiin. -LlywelynII (talk) 14:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Where do Nubians live?[edit]

Where do Nubians live today? Around the whole globe? Which are the top ten cities, and how many Nubians in each? Which are the top five countries, and how many Nubians in each? -96.237.2.78 (talk) 12:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

They've been around a -long- time. But as the article says, self-identified, Nubian-speaking Nubians mostly live along the upper Nile. -LlywelynII (talk) 14:24, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Nubians Pharaohs[edit]

Why does the opening sentence say "Nubian Pharaohs" when the title of the article is "Nubian people"? Tweisbach (talk) 11:23, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

An IP revised the articl recently, removing some sources, etc & made that change. I've reverted to an earlier version. Thanks for spotting this - it happened once before. Dougweller (talk) 13:01, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Homeland[edit]

Why is there no mention of Libya? I am sure the Numbians compose about 1% of Libya's population and that country borders Egypt. This information came up frequently during the Libyan crisis in 2011 depending which source you were watching and reading. Nubian is definitely one of Libya's languages. The Big Hoof! (talk) 04:37, 18 July 2013 (UTC) Struck out sock. bobrayner (talk) 05:18, 2 December 2013 (UTC)