Talk:Odor

Picture

Picture of the moth does not show an obvious image of a smelling receptor This picture is difficult to comprihend. Can it be updated or changed?

This article is badly in need of revision. I'm going to bed, but if someone comes across this... This article sucks.

You mean it stinks? ;)

Hey, I came to this page while trying to find out about robots that can smell. Can anyone help me with this? I think it is still very much a research topic, and a fairly obscure research topic at that.

You can read this book Odour detection by robots

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--Publunch 16:39, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Bomb detectors do that, but doggies can detect some things better than machines. -Barry- 16:49, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Re words for a bad smell: The word "pong" is never used, in my experience. Ever.

Not really explained that well here, or at all. Why can't we smell certain things? Why are they odourless? Is it because they well, can't be smelt, or because we havnt got a receptor in our nose that can detect them?

The picture of the moth is ridiculous. Obviously, what we need is a picture of a smell. Thank you.

58.109.14.99 12:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

You are looking for electronic noses for "robots that smell". As for the page it does need some revision. particulariily with regards to adding dynamic olfactometry. Which i may do if i can get some time. Also more information on the use of modelling and percentiles to assess odour impacts.

Density of an odor

I think it would be a useful asset to this page to include whether an odor is more or less dense than air, and whether it rises, like smoke does. Neoballmon II 11:24, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

It depends on the chemical responsible for the odor. Some are less dense than air, some more dense. For any particular chemical you should be able to look up the density in tables of chemical data. Wjousts 21:57, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Odor Measurement

"While no generally acceptable method for measuring odor exists, measurement of different aspects of odor can be attempted through a number of quantitative methods".

This is partly not true. The EU has put a standard froward to measure odour concentration, which is incorporated in the following European standard CEN EN 13725:2003, Air quality - Determination of odor concentration by dynamic olfactometry and is expressed in European Odour Units (ouE/m³).

The procedure for measuring odor concentration is as followed:

To establish the odour concentration, an olfactometer is used which employs a panel of human noses as sensors. In the olfactometry testing procedure, a diluted odorous mixture and an odour-free gas (as a reference) are presented separately from sniffing ports to a group of panellists. In comparing the gases emitted from each port, the panellists are asked to report the presence of odour together with a confidence level such as guessing, inkling, or certainty. The gas-diluting ratio is then decreased by a factor of two (i.e. chemical concentration is increased by a factor of two). The panellists are asked to repeat their judgement. This continues for a number of dilution levels. The responses of the panellists over a range of dilution settings are used to calculate the concentration of the odour in terms of European Odour Units (ouE/m³). The main panel calibration gas used is Butan-1-ol. which at a certain diluting gives 1 ouE/m³. Scubafish 19:11, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Please edit the article directly if something is wrong or missing (or for any other reason that comes to mind) - it's a wiki :-) Cacycle 19:29, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Just wanted to have a consensus a this is only treu for the EU. I do not know how they do it in the rest of the world.Scubafish 09:24, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I started to edit the section, in part using the text from Scubafish above. I hope I could help a bit, but much remains to be done, especially in the bottom part of the section.--Janstr (talk) 12:57, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Do odors have pitch?

I'm not generally prone to synesthesia, but my reaction as a child on encountering the smells of butane, pentane, hexane, and heptane was to arrange them in a series, with the shorter molecules having smells of higher "pitch" than the longer ones. Perhaps generally the sharp, pungent, biting odors get classified as "high-pitched" and the greasy, bitter, garlicky odors are "lower-pitched", though the definition of terms is a problem. Alkanes without smell such as methane and waxes can even be divided into "ultrasonic" and "infrasonic" categories. The classification of an odor may also reflect how quickly it diffuses through the air. For instance, the smell of a skunk to me consists of two separate odors, one of which spreads over long distances and seems very pleasant and floral, which I count as high-pitched, and the other one of which lingers near the source (within a 5-10 meter radius, but also remaining even a week afterward) and has an unpleasant garlic-like smell which I count as low pitched. If I begin to smell a skunk while driving down the road the smell is very pleasant, but if a skunk sprays outside a closed window, even the first detectable trace of the odor is unpleasant and garlicky.

I understand of course that there are a limited number of odorant receptors - but the eye can construct an entire rainbow system of color (with an aberration at purple) from only three photoreceptors. So it does not seem improbable that a few odorant receptors can set up a conceptual axis that can classify many compounds according to their general size, and with a hundred one might establish a vast number of independent dimensions of perception. As a general question: as we read that different smells have strong or weak ----y qualities, do these reflect genuine continua of perception, and are some of these continua more consistent or important than others? More specifically, does the distinction between different lengths of alkanes have a specific name among those working in the flavor industry? 70.15.116.59 18:36, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

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Aroma

Could we entitle the article "Aroma" rather than "Odor" as, when I saw odor written in the article Cosmetics, I thought to myself: What on earth is odor??? Wikipedia is too much American biased and we must follow the example of the article Fixed-Wing Aircraft and be completely neutral in relation to spellings. Bonzostar (talk) 20:38, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

As a Canadian, we tend to spell it "odour", but Wikipedia policy is to leave words in the original spelling. However, if "odour" is equivalently confusing, then perhaps a neutral word change to "aroma" may be appropriate. Is Odor/Odour not used where you come from? (EhJJ)^TALK 00:13, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, only got back to checking this article again a year later. lol.

We use "odour" here in Ireland but I am just suggesting a neutral title like "aroma". The language is English and in England, they say "odour". However, the Americans wouldn't be happy with that. Bonzostar (talk) 20:57, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

but AROMA is different than ODOR aroma is more of a scent that arises from odors-aka volatized chemicals —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abilkay (talk • contribs) 11:00, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Sloppy language

It says in the article:

The perception of an odor effect is a two-step process. First, there is the physiological part; the sense of the stimulus by receptors in the nose. After that, the psychological part follows. The stimuli are processed by the region of the human brain which is responsible for smelling.

No! Psychological processes arise from physiological functions of cells and dendrites, axons, synapses (see neuron doctrine and cable theory), so this distinction does not make any sense. A distinction, possibly meant, could be molecular recognition (aka chemical sensing in receptors) and neuronal processing. Another possible distinctions could be early (epithelium, olfactory bulb) and further processing (mainly periform cortex and limbic system). Ben ^T/_C 14:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't want to paste the entire article here, but one more thing from the same paragraph:

The stimuli are processed by the region of the human brain which is responsible for smelling. Because of this, an objective and analytical measure of odor is impossible.

What??? No, this is not the reason. There are two basic reasons it is difficult to measure odors. One is that the intrinsic dimensionalities of odors are unclear, i.e. receptor molecular ranges are under investigation and consensus is probably there are many more dimensions to odors than to other senses (see e.g. odotope theory). Second, odor perception highly subjective, it is first a function of experience among other factors given later in the paragraph. Ben What??? you mean legislation is wrong, in most states and in most countries of the world, it states in their laws "the odor must be at one odor unit (1 ou) at the boundary"

^T/_C 14:46, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

It's a wiki - be bold and improve the article! :-) Cacycle (talk) 16:02, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Is that why it's called wikipedia? ;) Seriously, no time. Ben ^T/_C 16:25, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Recording odors

Will we be able to record odors in the future, like we can do now with sounds and images? 207.69.139.138 (talk) 19:55, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

We already can. See Micro-encapsulation. This discussion is inappropriate, as it does not serve to help the article. Belasted (talk) 01:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

While I agree with you, I doubt that was what the original poster had in mind.Wjousts (talk) 12:42, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

"primarily by the food and cosmetic industry"

What the hell is that supposed to mean? I'm pretty sure 'scent' has been used by an extremely wide range of people working outside of food and perfume advertising... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.4.5 (talk) 02:49, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Uh ... it doesn't say the word is used only by the food and cosmetic industry. It just says that's the term they use for a pleasant smell. Calm down. Anyone can use the term if they decide to do so. Ward3001 (talk) 02:56, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

The definition of Pheremones doesn't make evolutionary sense. If the pheremone is used 'deliberately' for communication, who is the agent of this deliberation? Evolution itself? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.195.93.130 (talk) 20:59, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree. The word deliberately doesn't make sense. I think what the original editor might have been trying to get at was that pheromones can be actively released by an animal for a particular purpose (attract a mate, warn others, etc) rather than their passive odor which may serve no purpose for the animal. Wjousts (talk) 12:53, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Odor vs Scent

In the US, "odor" almost always refers to a stench whereas a pleasant smell is usually called a scent or aroma. 24.4.252.230 (talk) 18:47, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

6 Legislative provisions associated with odors

This whole section is so badly translated from German, it has little to no value for the average reader. As a matter of fact, even someone who is scientifically trained in olfaction would probably think it's gibberish. Am thinking about nominating this section for deletion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AirCombat (talk • contribs) 19:07, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Odour particle size

This article contains nothing on odour particle sizes. This is a serious omission for any intelligent discussion on physical and physiological behaviors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JoinedUpBusiness (talk • contribs) 09:21, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Particle size? Do you mean the size of aroma molecules? Wjousts (talk) 19:22, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

That'd be interesting if there's a source. What is the smallest molecule or lightest atom that can be identified by humans or animals? Methane might be among the lighter ones. Some pheronomes or spice aromas might be quite large.   Will Beback  talk  08:33, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually, (pure) methane is odorless. I don't have a reference handy, but the size range is fairly narrow because molecules with M.W > 500 (IIRC) or so tend not to be very volatile. The lower limit is probably not too important. The lightest molecule I can think of off-hand is maybe hydrogen sulfide (smells like rotten eggs), which is often found with sources of methane leading people to think that methane has an odor. Wjousts (talk) 15:37, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction.   Will Beback  talk  20:33, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

References

The reference Spengler 2000, p.483 links to a university library website login. It is not useful. You do not see the reference. A journal website would be better.

The reference Oracle Education Foundation (25 Aug. 2010). Your Sense of Smell - The Senses. ThinkQuest Library is popular science and does not give sufficient background (for example a reference to a study).

Ben ^T/_C 13:58, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

The reference for these categories would be Amoore. Ben ^T/_C 10:02, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Is odor a gas?

Are odors gases? If so, how would that explain the smell of say, apples, or wood which are solid. 4.238.7.203 (talk) 20:01, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Odors are gasses. The gas that you smell from, say apples or wood, are gasses created either by decay or oxidation. Achowat (talk) 20:03, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Contradictory information

<<Odors are also commonly called scents, which can refer to both pleasant and unpleasant odors. The terms fragrance, scent, and aroma are used primarily by the food and cosmetic industry to describe a pleasant odor, and are sometimes used to refer to perfumes.>>

Those two sentences contradict. The first says that scent can be used for both pleasant and unpleasant odors, and the second says that scent is only used for pleasant odors. As such I removed the first sentence. 4.238.7.203 (talk) 20:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

It looks like you removed far more than just the listed sentence.[1] Was that a mistake?   Will Beback  talk  20:27, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I restored the earlier version, then removed "scent" from the list of terms used primarily by the food and cosmetic industry. This, I believe, resolves the contradiction. -- Ed (Edgar181) 20:33, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Proposed move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian (talk) 23:38, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

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Odor → smell – A smell is by far the most common way of refer to this in English. odor often refers to only bad smells. Also with smell, there's no spelling issues. Voortle (talk) 00:08, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose; the word "smell" alone is ambiguous and often refers to the sense of smell. We need a unique title for this article and "odor" is the best unambiguous fit. Powers ^T 02:56, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

  • Simply a link to the olfaction article above the article about smells would do. Something like, "this articles is about smells, for the sense, see olfaction". Voortle (talk) 03:09, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

    That would work if you made a case that this was the primary topic for the word "smell", but I'm not convinced. Powers ^T 15:12, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose per Powers, the primarity of smells over the sense of smell is not shown. 76.65.128.132 (talk) 05:11, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose for the same reasons: "smell" may refer to the sense of smell. "Odor" is the best available title.   Will Beback  talk  20:11, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
• How about Scent or Scents? the claim above that scents are only pleasant has a problem with the scent of skunk. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:45, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
  • How is that better than "odor"?   Will Beback  talk  01:02, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
    • It is both positive and negative; and Scents avoids the ambiguity with the sense of smell, if that's a real problem. (We are calling that article by the high-faluting Olfaction nowadays.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 01:59, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
      • So is "odor". Reading the definitions at Merriam Webster, both seem to have positive and negative connotations.[2][3] I don't object to "scent" strongly, but I don't see it as a significant improvement either.   Will Beback  talk  02:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
      • OED's relevant definitions:
      • Scent: "In wider sense: Distinctive odour. Now almost exclusively applied to agreeable odours, e.g. those of flowers."
      • Odour: "The property of a substance that is perceptible by the sense of smell; (in early use) spec. a sweet or pleasing scent; (now, freq.) an unpleasant smell."
      • Unfortunately, neither seems totally neutral.   Will Beback  talk  02:20, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Foetid

In the articles Asparagus and Lactuca serriola, the link Foetid redirects to Odor - but the word "foetid" is nowhere mentioned in Odor. It should be, and it should be mentioned in boldface in the lead -- I think.--Nø (talk) 08:45, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Fetid is used as an adjective rather than a noun. You might refer to "a stink", but not "a fetid". Instead you'd say "a fetid odor/smell/stink" Wjousts (talk) 17:54, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, but somehow this should be in the article (or Foetid shouldn'r redirect to it).--Nø (talk) 16:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)