Talk:Oklahoma City bombing conspiracy theories

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October 4, 2006 Articles for deletion Deleted

Recreation of article[edit]

The article was deleted in 2006 because it had been a large list of unsourced items. I have expanded its current state using reliable sources found while developing the main Oklahoma City bombing article. I have split off the conspiracy theories section on the main page to be moved here, which can be expanded by others. I will not be expanding this further, as I am working on the main article. Remember that before adding any additional theories or evidence of existing theories that it meet the reliable sources criteria. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 01:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Article's content before being deleted[edit]

Here is the article's content that was deleted because it was unsourced. I'm leaving the list here so that other editors can look into the information if they wish to pursue reliable sources. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 01:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC) There are numerous alleged inconsistencies in the official account on the Oklahoma City bombing. The official account states that Timothy McVeigh drove a Ryder truck loaded with a bomb driven to the front of the Alfred P. Murrah federal building and was solely responsible for the destruction of the building and the deaths of 168 people.

In a column on the News With Views website, nuclear submarine veteran Patrick Briley suggests that U.S. government agencies themselves orchestrated the bombing by means of agents provocateurs. [1]

Theories

Some assertions of conspiracy theorists regarding the bombing are that:

  • An explosion originating from a truck would have a caused a different kind of damage to the building.
  • The shape of the destroyed building indicates an explosion from inside.
  • Some people near the building noticed two explosions.
  • If the explosion originated from the truck there should have been a crater.
  • The actual size of the blast crater under the Ryder truck was extremely small; the media exaggerated the width and the depth.
  • The debris of the building was removed and destroyed shortly after the incident, preventing the gathering of potential conspiracy evidence.
  • Some people saw an Arab male with Timothy McVeigh just prior to the explosion.
  • Surveillance video tapes of the explosion, possibly showing this Arab male, were classified.
  • An Arab male was arrested at the airport carrying bomb-making material.
  • The president of the United States gave this Arab male free passage out of the country.
  • Some government workers were paged not to go to work that day.
  • The Sheriff's bomb squad assembled near the building a few hours prior to the explosion.
  • Police and firefighters testified that they saw federal agents removing unexploded devices.
  • No witnesses reported hearing just one explosion, a fact backed up by two seismological reports: the University of Oklahoma's and the U.S. Geological Survey's.
  • Gen. Benton K. Partin, the former head of Air Force weapons development program and a man with multiple engineering degrees and over 30 years experience, was barred access to the site after he pointed out that the asymmetrical damage was inconsistent with a single external explosion. Partin concluded that demolition charges attached to the damaged support columns had to have been used.
  • The passenger in the Ryder truck, identified as "John Doe #2," an olive-skinned man with black, curly hair is named Al-Hussaini Hussani, an Iraqi national.
  • Oklahoma City paramedic Tiffany Bible, among the first EMT's to arrive, swore under affidavit that she had seen Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents in full gear. The gear takes about 30 minutes to put on. Bible asked if they were injured, and was told by the agents "no," they were called and told not to come in that morning — before the explosions occurred.
  • A second and third bomb, more destructive than the first, were found and defused by authorities and reported by local media. The information was mysteriously censored by national press.
  • According to conclusions of Brigadier General Benton K. Partin, the building appears to have been destroyed by the detonation of explosives carefully placed at four critical junctures on supporting columns within the building. [2] Blast through air is a very inefficient energy coupling mechanism against heavily reinforced concrete beams and columns, and some suspect that there were contact explosives within the building. In the words of the Brigadier, "the total incompatibility with a single truck bomb lies in the fact that either some columns collapsed that should not have collapsed or some of the columns are still standing that should of collapsed and did not." [3]
  • It is a matter of public record that CDI did the demolition and cleanup and that the rubble was taken to an isolated private landfill in the desert, buried, and surrounded by fencing and Wackenhut security guards.
Videotapes

As part of a lawsuit filed by an Oklahoma journalist, the Justice Department revealed the existence of 23 videotapes in July 2001. The tapes contained footage of the area around the Murrah Federal Building between April 15, 1995, and 9:02 a.m. April 19, when the bomb went off. The video tapes are still classified.

The Final Jihad;

Martin Keating, brother of Oklahoma Governor Frank Keating, wrote a manuscript for The Final Jihad in 1991. This manuscript lays out a story of terrorists based in Oklahoma City who decide to bomb a federal building. One of the key terrorists in this fictional story goes by the name of "Tom McVey" and the terrorists are ultimately stopped by an Oklahoma highway patrolman for a broken tail light. On the day of the Oklahoma City Bombing, Timothy McVeigh was pulled over by an Oklahoma state trooper because of a missing license plate. Martin Keating struggled to get the manuscript published prior to the Oklahoma City Bombing, but on June 1, 1996 the 597-page manuscript was published under the title "The Final Jihad." His seemingly prophetic novel also predicted the downing of a TWA 747 (which occurred on July 17, 1996) and an attack on the World Trade Center.

External links

Jayna Davis, etc.[edit]

Would Salon.com be considered a Reliable Source here? [4] That piece definitely seems balanced. In any event, Jayna Davis' investigation should certainly be discussed here. PSWG1920 (talk) 01:55, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I would say take a look here. In addition, when covering any conspiracy theory, it would be beneficial to use several sources, preferably from different newspapers/journals/television shows/etc. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 18:19, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
Jayna Davis has a list of major news outlets which have reported on her investigation, with links to each story. [5] PSWG1920 (talk) 18:56, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
If the sources are used, I'd say go ahead. I'd also make sure to include other sources if these articles only talk about Davis in a positive or negative light. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 02:10, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
More possible sources:[6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13] Fences and windows (talk) 02:28, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

BBC Conspiracy Files Documentary[edit]

Hello people - not an expert in this area, but the BBC recently broadcast a documentary as part of their "Conspiracy Files" series (which examines the veracity of conspiracy theories) which I don't see referenced here yet. The BBC is about as reliable a source as you can get.

The BBC is about as biased an institution you can get, when it comes to reporting. Their series "Conspiracy Files" is just a waste of tape and man hours. Morganson691 (talk) 20:21, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

It's on Youtube (but hurry, because the BBC can be quite aggressive about clearing up contraventions of copyright). Search Conspiracy Files Oklahoma.VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 14:18, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Also the third episode of Jon Ronson's Secret Rulers of the World, "Timothy McVeigh, The Oklahoma Bomber", discusses conspiratorial connections involving Elohim City. —Morning star (talk) 19:46, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Copy edit[edit]

I just completed a copy edit of most of the article [14], keeping the same content and sources. I shortened the lede, removing statements (i.e. "forthright, thorough, or truthful"), that were not contained in the article. I also rearranged the lede, the article sections and some individual sentences into what I believe is a more logical order. — 11:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.44.123.1 (talk) 209.44.123.1 (talk) 11:40, 9 April 2010 (UTC) (sinebot must be following me around - it added my accidentally omitted IP within 2 seconds! 209.44.123.1 (talk) 11:40, 9 April 2010 (UTC))

David Paul Hammer[edit]

Where is the information by David Paul Hammer? Inmate who knew Timothy McVeigh and wrote a book about Government involvement in the OKC Bombing? --24.103.173.3 (talk) 13:49, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles are improved and expanded by new editors contributing information. If you know of information related to Hammer and the topic then feel free to include it. Be sure to include a citation, such as a newspaper article or the book to support the addition. If you need help with adding the material, please let me know. --Happy editing! Nehrams2020 (talkcontrib) 21:11, 16 May 2010 (UTC)


I believe it is still available on the web - the Elgin Blast Effects Study. This government study confirmed that an air bomb of any size could not create the damage seen in Oklahoma. Somehow, the scientific confirmation of Partin - the US's top bomb expert - has been met with total silence. The study also said that McVeigh was at most a "useful idiot". Also the study confirmed that the explosives would have had to be inside the building - directly on the piers that fell. It appears that the conspiracy theory of an agricultural bomb has finally ended.159.105.80.220 (talk) 20:53, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Air Force Report[edit]

I just was reading this trying to find out more about these conspiracy theorists and noticed the following:

The truck had 6200 pounds of explosives in it (lead paragraph).

The Air Force Study concluded that 4800 pounds of explosives could not destroy the Murrah Building.

To me, this signifies that we can simply dismiss the 1995 study because it quoted the incorrect amount of explosives. I can't be the first person to notice this, or am I? Before I remove the study as inconsequential and misleading, I want to get some more opinions.TheKurgan (talk) 21:51, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

There are two sources stating how much explosive was used. One says 6200 and the other says 4800. Will reserve judgment on changing the article until we have further discussion on which number is more reliable.TheKurgan (talk) 13:20, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

"Conspiracy theories"[edit]

It might seem silly for me to point out the obvious fact that the official account of the bombing is itself a "conspiracy theory", by Wikipedia's own definition of the term. But I think it is significant, and pertinent to the accuracy of this article.

For example, the second sentence of this article is demonstrably false, in light of this fact. The first sentence states, "A variety of conspiracy theories have been proposed regarding the Oklahoma City bombing." As stated, this would necessarily include the official account. The second sentences states, "These theories reject all or part of the official government report." This statement is false. One of those theories is the official government report. How could the official government report have rejected all or part of itself? 66.41.179.140 (talk) 08:09, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Tom Harrison[edit]

Htlatour (talk)why are you deleting locked informatiomHtlatour (talk) 12:34, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

! --htlatour why is Wikipedia locks being deleted from this page.

How is adding [15] an image from a 1976 church fellowship bullet relevant to the this article? Likewise with information added [16] regarding document fees? Regardless, I would strongly urge you to read Wikipedia's official policy on original research. — Kralizec! (talk) 15:05, 16 July 2014 (UTC)