Talk:Olkiluoto Nuclear Power Plant

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Design of units 1 and 2[edit]

Article says units 1 & 2 were built by ASEA - but to what design ?
Are they related to any of the GE BWR/1-6 designs ? Rod57 (talk) 13:57, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

They are of ASEA own (ABB) design. Beagel (talk) 15:27, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal[edit]

I propose to merge Olkiluoto 3 Nuclear Plant project into this article as duplication. The third unit is the integral part of the Olkiluoto NPP, so no need for the separate article. All information could be provided in this article which is not too long yet. Beagel (talk) 15:13, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Teemu Leisti (talk) 10:10, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I just performed the merge. Teemu Leisti (talk) 10:30, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OR and partiality[edit]

I have rarely seen such unashamed propaganda for wind power as in the paragraph I have just erased. The only sourced affirmation became meaningless without the rest, which was unbelievably undisguised OR. To -Teemu Leisti who noted that " this paragraph need(ed) serious editing" This kind of material does no need serious editing. It needs serious immediate deleting. Frohfroh (talk) 19:00, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm making no judgment on the correctness of the material you removed, or on the desireability of developing wind power -- but I guess you're right, it had at best indirect relevance with the article, and deletion was the right choice. Teemu Leisti (talk) 09:59, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Installed Capacity[edit]

I changed the total installed capacity in the box at the top right from 1720 MW to 1760 MW because I think that 2x880=1760.

Greetings, Bernd — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.137.237.136 (talk) 21:52, 1 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative power to Olkiluoto 3[edit]

Frohfroh removed my addition: "In 2009 wind power average cost in the European Union was €1.3 million. € /MW in land and €2.6 million. € /MW in see. (10 163 MW 13 mrd. €).Wind in power, 2009 European statistics February 2010 Olkiluoto cost estimated in 2008 as €4.7 billion would equal 3,600 MW wind power with the average investment cost in 2009. If Finland would have installed 500 MW wind power annually since 2002 (equal to Swedish installation in 2009), the volume would have been 3,500 MW in 2008 and 3,600 MW from 2009 forward. Wind power electricity would have been in use since 2002. The lost wind electricity is 64 TWh during 2002-2013. With the price of 6 c/kWh, the lost is equal to €3.8 billion. Wind is costless, domestic and renewable fuel with no fluctuations in price. It may give competitive advantage in the marketing of the products as preferred energy source of the customers.

In my opinion the article is not neutral without comparison to alternatives ie wind power. EWEA has pointed out that wind power produce power from the year 1. Here is shown what it means in Olkiluoto case: 64 TWh with income cash flow and reduced environmental impact from the alternatives during 2002-2013. Also here needs to be estimated the future Nuclear decommissioning cost and Radioactive waste cost and the needed financial insurances to these future costs. Watti Renew (talk) 16:30, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's quite pointless to compare the cost of dispatchable generation with variable renewable energy because their properties and value are so different. Sivullinen (talk) 22:45, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Decommision comparison with Niederaichbach nuclear plant[edit]

I have removed a comparison with the decommissioning costs with the German Niederaichbach nuclear plant (de). While both plants are pressurized water reactors, they have no further similarities: The German power plant was constructed in the 70s and was only rated at 100 MW, i.e. less than one tenth one sixteenth of the Olkiluoto 3 reactor. Comparing decommissioning costs per MW will be highly biased against Olkiluoto. 213.114.125.142 (talk) 18:14, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Olkiluoto 3 construction timing[edit]

Around the construction timing there seem's to be a lot of speculated assumptions. I feel that, where you would blame a part, we should use his chronology, not that of the newspapers or interested parties. I found these lost page where Areva states a 2010 commercial operation, so using 2009 as service date is a bit severe. --Robertiki (talk) 03:46, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to Yleisradio (YLE) , Finnish state owned TV Channel, Areva-Siemens is constructing the plant unit as fixed-price contract and it was originally schedule to be completed by 2009. In February 2014 recent unofficial estimates were no earlier than 2016. In my opinion YLE should be neutral party. [1] Watti Renew (talk) 16:35, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Climate change[edit]

Recent news (2014) have pointed out that much of the earth warming by CO2 can be detected via warming of the oceans and seas. As I understood, in Finland and by IEA nuclear power is claimed to be wasteless. I have also read claims that the complete life cycle of the nuclear energy produce significantly CO2. Please give reliable references. The Swedish Professionals have published data that the nuclear power plants do warm the waters significantly. Please explain what difference it makes if we warm the earth by CO2 or by nuclear plant? Why this is not included in the climate change negotiations? Watti Renew (talk) 16:46, 6 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is easily understood by looking at the relative differences in energy input by the sun and what's produced for human activity. Total energy supply 2017 was 162,494 TWh ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_supply_and_consumption#Total_Energy_Supply ), this also happens to be about the continously input from the sun, ~170,000 TW. Ie. in one hour the sun radiates us with the same energy as we produce in a whole year. Just for comparison: if we increase our absorbtion of energy from the sun by one percentagepoint, ie, absorb another 17,000 TW, that's 149,000,000 TWh in a year, or a thousand times our total energy production. That 30% of nuclear energy output is wasted into the cooling water is of no effect, it's a drop in the ocean. Thulle (talk) 14:08, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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LCOE[edit]

Is het LCOE mentioned in this article correct? This professor talks about a much larger LCOE: https://twitter.com/JesseJenkins/status/1002217296243429377 PJ Geest (talk) 11:23, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The article says 42 EUR/MWh for unit 3, the professor's tweet says 45-55 USD/MWh. They are almost the same, depending on what currency exchange rate is used. TuomoS (talk) 11:32, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
According to the calculator https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/data-tools/levelised-cost-of-electricity-calculator attached to IEA report "Projected Costs of Generating Electricity 2020", LCOE of the French "sister reactor" of OL3 is remarkably higher, 71.10 $/MWh, consisting of capital cost 47.51 $/MWh, O&M 14.26 $/MWh and nuclear fuel 9.33 $/MWh. Compared to this, LCOE of OL3 appears quite low. Sivullinen (talk) 22:33, 29 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The reason for the low LCOE of OL3 is explained in the first sentence of the Cost section: "The main contractor, Areva, is building the unit for a fixed price of €3 billion, so in principle, any construction costs above that price fall on Areva." --TuomoS (talk) 06:10, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Seems the €3 billion cost is badly obsolete/erroneous. The TVO news release https://www.tvo.fi/en/index/news/pressreleasesstockexchangereleases/2018/hD4GZkgAO.html Jesse Jenkins is referring to states "Based on the current OL3 EPR project schedule provided by the plant supplier, TVO’s current capital expenditure assumptions and the effect of the settlement agreement, TVO estimates its total investment in OL3 EPR to be around EUR 5.5 billion." In fact, this cost overrun is explained in the Cost section of the article. Sivullinen (talk) 13:04, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that's why the first sentence says "in principle". --TuomoS (talk) 13:44, 30 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article says that LCOE for OL3 is estimated at 49 €/MWh alone, and referring to a TVO credit investor presentation from June 2021. I can't find any reference to LCOE in said presentation. When estimating LCOE the assumtions needs to be clear and it needs to include all costs borne by any party, not only TVOs. 185.63.208.132 (talk) 06:21, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The OL1&2 cost can be found on slide 7 of the investor presentation. --TuomoS (talk) 07:34, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not LCOE, operation costs. Look up the source. Unfortunately operation costs are only a small fraction of LCOE, because in nuclear power plants, LCOE are dominated by capital costs. Therefore the sentence is a huge misrepresentation of the reality (and the source), as it confused the rather small operation costs with the rather large LCOE. Andol (talk) 23:15, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note there's much more recent investor presentations on TVO website:
https://www.tvo.fi/en/index/investors/financialpublications/investorpresentations.html
The latest one gives 24 EUR/MWh combined production cost for OL1/OL2 (page 7) and the chart on page 7 has combined for OL1/OL2/OL3 at around 40 EUR/MWh:
https://www.tvo.fi/material/sites/tvo/pdft/kazh0c1yw/TVO_-_Credit_Investor_Presentation_-_June_2023.pdf
While LCOE is not directly mentioned anywhere in the presentation, the investment cost are clearly incorporated into the financial calculations on page 7. The calculation in table on page 7 is not LCOE however, as it only accounts for year-per-year investments, but the output value does seem to be an on-spot LCOE estimate. Cloud200 (talk) 12:39, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here's Jesse Jenkins speaking of $60/MWh in 2018:
https://x.com/JesseJenkins/status/1002166453494321152?s=20
Enerdata seems to have some more detailed LCOE calculations for OL1/OL2/OL3 except it's all hidden behind a paywall :(
https://www.enerdata.net/publications/daily-energy-news/tvo-completes-hot-tests-ol3-nuclear-reactor-project-finland.html Cloud200 (talk) 12:54, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, didn't see this ongoing discussion when I made my edits earlier today. Regarding While LCOE is not directly mentioned anywhere in the presentation, the investment cost are clearly incorporated into the financial calculations on page 7.: I disagree that this is clear in any way. To the contrary: In 2019, it mentions 369 Mio. € of investment cost; if I divide these by the 14729 GWh produced, this alone is 25 € / MWh and way above the combined production cost of 15 € / MWh. So, to me it remains very obscure what exactly is covered by the "combined production cost". -- H005 (talk) 16:46, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What I meant is that the presentation some kind of investment is directly mentioned there, but I also tried to repeat the calculation and didn't get anything reasonable, suggesting that their formula is something different. Normally for proper LCOE they'd take all the initial capital cost, then add all annual operational costs (I guess this is what they display in the investment column?) during lifetime and divide by lifetime kWh? But we don't see many of these variables clearly displayed anywhere. Cloud200 (talk) 17:46, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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