Talk:Om mani padme hum
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- 1 Devanāgarī correction
- 2 Request for citation
- 3 Possible mistake in Tibetan writing?
- 4 Meaning of the mantra
- 5 Highest image
- 6 OM MANI PADME HUM HRIH
- 7 Effect of Nameology.......
- 8 Book cover images are needed for the topics.....
- 9 Safety data for practising
- 10 Unclear table
- 11 What's happening....???
- 12 Not the most famous Buddhist chant
- 13 A.H. Francke
- 14 Additional information
- 15 Further Symbolism
- 16 Capitalisation
- 17 Maṇipadme
- 18 oṃ not auṃ
- 19 Japanese usage
- 20 Gen Rinpoche => Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
- 21 Yet another variant...
- 22 Vocative?
- 23 Proposed alternative links in "Om mani padme um"
- 24 General Comments
"ॐ मणिपद्मे हूं" is incorrect. It should actually be: ॐ मणि पद्मे हूं. There's no saṃdhi in "मणिपद्मे" ("maṇi padme"). If saṃdhi was involved and इ is the last vowel in "मणि" ("mani"), it wouldn't make sense and an incorrect use of saṃdhi.
Request for citation
- Well, you cited a particular teacher saying this is what the Buddha said, but I think the article should cite a specific sutra or other text where the quote comes from. I don't really have a particular axe to grind here, or a reason to think that the Buddha didn't say this, but other people might (almost certainly would) dispute it. - Nat Krause 15:26, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Possible mistake in Tibetan writing?
-- 1) There seems to be a tsheg (a tibetan space, the little tick mark after a word) between the syllables of "mani". Instead of "om mani padme hum" it says "om ma ni padme hum". Shouldn't it be: ༀ་མཎི་པདྨེ་ཧཱུྃ། ? I might be mistaken on this one though, I do see google images with the tsheg in place there as well...
-- 2) There also is a tsheg after hum, before the shad (the tibetan period), shouldn't it be omitted?
Can anyone please verify this (I don't feel I'm qualified enough)?
Both tshegs are correct. padme is written in contracted form (the ma subfixed to the da) and so counts as one syllable even though it is pronounced as two. Epicœne 08:55, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
In Chenrezig saddhana, there are 5 tshegs in here: ༀ་མ་ཎི་པད་མེ་ཧཱཱུུྃྃ།. It is a small book as a gift by Tsangsar tulku rinpoche, but unfortunately the book didn't have an ISBN. --184.108.40.206 12:43, 28 December 2006 (UTC) (I am user warrenchen in zh.wikipedia.org)
- When writing Sanskrit mantras in Tibetan, tsheg is not required ~ though in texts it is usually inserted to aid reading. When mantras are like this are used as gzungs placed within within images etc. tsheg should never be used.
- The mantra has six syllables OM MA-NI PAD-ME HUM and (when using tsheg) it can be written either:ཨོཾ་མ་ཎི་པདྨེ་ཧཱུྃ། or ཨོཾ་མ་ཎི་པད་མེ་ཧཱུྃ།. The second way separates all the syllables. There should never be a tsheg before the shad. (Tsheg is only used before a shad after the letter nga.)
Chris Fynn (talk) 14:58, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
- the syllables in Sanskrit are oṃ ma ṇi pa dme hūṃ. Tibetan finds dme a difficult phonetic combination so changes pa.dme to pad.me. It is correct as far as Tibetan orthography goes, and the sounds come out the same. mahaabaala (talk) 13:43, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Meaning of the mantra
There is a contradiction between this article and the article 'Mantra', and the latter seems to be right. Here the traditional interpretation (jewel in the lotus) is ascribed to Donald Lopez, but in the other article Lopez is said to be the scholar who rejected it and replaced it by his own new interpretation (Manipadma as a personal name). 220.127.116.11 20:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
- Lopez has a long an detailed discussion of the word manipadme. He does 'reject' it he places it in context and shows that it was originally a Tibetan interpretation, but that the Dalai Lama has adopted it. mahaabaala (talk) 09:09, 20 September 2009 (UTC)
I created and uploaded an image Image:Om-mani-padme-hum-mantra.svg to replace the JPEG mani-mantra image currently used, as a vector transcription of that image -SVG is often preferable. Would this be more suitable than Image:Mani mantra.jpg? Nihiltres(t.c.s) 04:02, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
OM MANI PADME HUM HRIH
I'm thinking about adding a paragraph about the so-called 'seed-syllable' hrih that is sometimes added to the end of the mantra. I'll do it when I have a spare minute! In the meantime you can read about it here http://www.hrih.info/. And if someone feels like beating me to it, even better!
Effect of Nameology.......
Whether the practice of the six-syllables should be lineaged or not, I leave this for open debate. Since the dharma is associated with the deity name in which one of them is called Kannon, coinsidently it sounds like Canon. I have not read the Norma J Watts' book of The Art of Nameology: Uncovering the Meaning Behind a Name (ISBN-13: 978-1932783537), however I assume that there is something to say about the effect of association. Bear in mind, not every BEING in this universe who has an integrity to live harmoniously with others. If a scientific research is conducted in this field, I believe that a statistical result will tell some interesting stories.
Sadly enough, there was no patent technology to protect names in old days and important names can be utilized as a tool of counter-effect.
Anyhow according to some school's tradition of Asian Buddhism, newly ordinated buddhists have to be renamed. Whether this long history of the practice is consciously/purposely preserved to reduce personal karma or not, those monks and nuns can tell.
Book cover images are needed for the topics.....
If people out there could provide them
- ISBN-10: 9710376020
- ISBN-13: 978-9710376025
- ISBN-10: 9710376020
- ISBN-13: 978-9710376025
- ISBN-10: 9710376020
- ISBN-13: 978-9710376025
- ISBN-10: 3893380507
- ISBN-13: 978-3893380503
Safety data for practising
Can we have some sources? Otherwise I'll delete them. Most of them seem unnecessary and use poor English, not to mention that they were unregistered. Jmlee369 11:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Is there any way the table describing the various possible meanings can be better explained? The "symbol of the deity" and "wish them to be born into" columns are nearly incomprehensible, and not aided by the fact that searching Wikipedia for Buddhist Deities leads you to God in Buddhism as opposed to the Dhyani Buddhas, which, if I'm not mistaken, is what it means to describe. Anyway, that stuff is very vague and could really use some clarification, or at least corresponding links to other articles.
BladeSire 9:55, 08 July 2008 (EST)
The following refs are useful to complete the Authentication section and please help
http://www.cqvip.com/QK/80443X/2003002/8922419.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 05:06, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you. This is really useful stuff. I'll try to go through the online material when I get a chance and try to find the books when I get back to school in a month. --Gimme danger (talk) 06:01, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
It really annoys me that the rest of the text in the section of Authentication does not appear
Not the most famous Buddhist chant
I took off the qualification that this was the "most famous Buddhist chant" because it is doubtful that it is. Chinese Buddhism rarely if ever refers to Om Mani Padme Hume and there are a lot more Chinese Buddhist followers than Tibetan Buddhist followers. The qualification was possibly written by someone who lives in the West where Tibetan Buddhism has some popularity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 03:18, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
I would like to read his article. How can I get it? He has also written two books, .
- The syllable hūṃ finds a variety of associations in Buddhism especially as time goes on. It's presence here is slightly awkward which probably is due to being created before Tantra got systematised. See Studholme's book. Jayarava 20:28, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
The use of capitals on this page is completely mad! Why is every word of the mantra capitalised? The scholarly convention is to capitalise everything or nothing - since Sanskrit has no capitals! All caps sucks, but is presumably used to highlight mantras. I would recommend that the page adopts lower case, or at most initial caps. We're writing in English! mahaabaala (talk) 13:43, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
As the article itself says 'maṇipadme' is one word, a Sanskrit compound (tatpuruṣa or bahuvrīhi take your pick), and yet the page consistently has it as two words (both for some reason capitalised). mahaabaala (talk) 13:43, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
- This fact is now in the article but needs a citation. So here are a couple:
- Studholme, Alexander. 2002. The origins of oṃ maṇipadme hūṃ : a study of the Kāraṇḍavyūha Sūtra. Albany : State university of New York Press.
- Lopez, D. S. (jr.) 1988. Prisoners of Shangri-la : Tibetan Buddhism and the West. Chicago University Press. p.114ff. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahaabaala (talk • contribs) 20:27, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
oṃ not auṃ
The sign for auṃ ॐ is not appropriate in this context - Buddhists always use oṃ with the monophthong rather than the diphthong. The two are written differently in Sanskrit and Tibetan scripts. In Devanāgarī this is written ओं. Auṃ is specific to Hinduism and originating in some of the later principle Upaniṣads. See http://www.visiblemantra.org/om.html for a discussion of this issue. mahaabaala (talk) 13:43, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
False statemet: the six-syllable mantra known in Japan is not "om mani padme hum" found in karandavyuha. Karandavyuha and "om mani padme hum" were unknown in Japan in the past and in canonical writings. Regards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 09:33, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Gen Rinpoche => Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
Gen Rinpoche was cited as author of Heart Treasure of the Enlightened one. I put Dilgo Khyentse Rinponche instead (since that is what the cover says). I have never seen the 'Gen' name/title before. If anyone can justify using 'Gen Rinpoche' instead of Dilgo Khyentse please change it back :) --188.8.131.52 (talk) 20:45, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
Yet another variant...
I saw this variant on a site: ॐ मणिपद्मे हूँ What is this? Neither the first nor the last character are covered in the article, so it might be a dialect or something. -andy 184.108.40.206 (talk) 09:39, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
- ॐ is the Hindu 'auṃ' with the diphthong vowel - the form is left over from the script which predates Devanāgarī. In this case it is wrong, and the correct spelling is ओं. The rest is correct standard Devanāgarī and reads maṇipadme hūṃ. Jayarava 20:19, 17 October 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahaabaala (talk • contribs)
Unless I've got my Sanskrit declension wrong, if "maṇipadme" is a vocative, it must be that of a feminine noun: maṇipadmā. But in that case, surely it can't be referring to Avalokiteśvara because he only becomes a woman in Chinese tradition, which wouldn't be reflected in a Sanskrit name. Kannan91 (talk) 16:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
- Sigh. There is a lot of historical discussion of this issue. But the most likely, and least discussed, option is that this is not Classical Sanskrit at all, but Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit based probably on the Magadhī Prakrit and is in fact a masculine nominative singular. See my blog post on words that end in -e in mantras. You can compare the declensions in Edgerton's Dictionary and Grammar of Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit. Jayarava 20:24, 17 October 2011 (UTC) Jayarava 12:03, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
A compilation of texts from ancient India made by Teresa E. Rohde "La India literaria" (Spanish edition by Editorial Porrúa, Mexico, 1977) in a section about the "Laws of Manú", makes a citation of a text from the Book II of these laws: "The young novice must always pronounce the sacred monosyllabe in the beginning and at the end of the study of the sacred scripture, any reading that has not been preceded by Aum is erased little by little, as well as the one that has not been followed by the monosyllabe. The letter a, the letter u, and the letter m, which together form the sacred monosyllabe, have been taken out by Brahma from the three sacred books. Of the three vedas, the lord of Creatures has also taken out, stanza by stanza, the invocation addressed to the sun, and that begins by the word "Tad"".
Here we may think having found a possible explanation for the initial "Om", and the final "Um" of this famous mantra, that would be equivalent to the "Aum" that the Manu's laws prescribe to reinforce the memory of the sacred texts. As previously said, the sanskrit word "mani" has the meaning of jewel, our word "diamond" will join the meaning "jewel", to the word "dyaus", the force, the brightness in the protoeuropean; we must not forget that the Buddah belonged to the indian group of princes, this group possibly coming from european regions, a fact remarked by the coincidence of the name of a gothic queen of Spain, "Goswintha" - the path of cows - with the indian name "Govind". The words "Zeus", "Jupiter=Dyaus pitar", Zeus father, unrelated to the Christian Trinity, and its similar the latin word "Deus", the french "Dieu", the italian "Dio" and the spanish "Dios", would all come from "dyaus", but as dyaus having had the meaning of clarity, brightness, "diamond" would mean "the bright jewel". The word "padme" may be a single word of sanskrit, or even a variation in the spelling of "Tad", the sun, and for this purposes it can be brought here that "svastika", from the sanskrit "sv", well, and "asti", to be , sanskrit, as spanish, difference between ser -be, and -estar -be: at a location, in a condition, etc- , so svastika would mean "wellbeing", this symbol, formerly linked to solar cults, can be found in so different places as the main entry to a jainist university in India, the cover of the single "Atlantis", by Donovan, and also in archeological sites, such as floor mosaics of roman villas, and being part of the ornamentation of the last temple of Jerusalem, before its destruction by the romans and the diaspore (Book: "El fértil creciente y la Biblia", by J Gonzalez-Echegaray), the ancient goths had also a solar cult, having as names, "Oberon", "Alberic", and the greek cult to "Apollion", one the Bible makes identical with "Abbadon the exterminator", was also initially a solar cult, greeks soon realizing that "it can't be god somebody that is always walking the same path, like a donkey tied to a treadmill". In the New Testament, a reference is made to Jesus as "The Sun coming from the heights will visit us", obviously intended to divert the previous concepts of deity to the new Christian Faith's Divinity as exclusive of any former worship. Even when the rules in the graphic and phonetical changes in the course of evolution and diversification of languages and words are known, it would be good having an expert in sanskrit language, or even better, somebody having sanskrit as his/her childhood tongue providing us with more information about the possible roots and meanings of the word "Padme". Is padme a single word?. Is it composed of a derivative of "tad", plus something else?. The basic concepts in this are sketched, it remains to people really expert in these fields to say about its value, if any. Salut +--Jgrosay (talk) 18:00, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
Under the section 14th Dalai Lama there are a couple of dashes that seem surplus to requirements, like below: