Talk:Open Society Foundations

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Open Society Foundations[edit]

OSI is now called the Open Society Foundations http://soros.org — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vwoodstock (talkcontribs) 10:28, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, this name of the page needs to be changed to reflect the organizations new name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sheena J (talkcontribs) 00:04, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Not done: {{edit protected}} is not required for edits to unprotected pages, or pending changes protected pages. Anomie 00:42, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Definitions of open and democratic[edit]

Soros opponents accuse him of being anti-democratic. Let's collaborate on writing about these accusations. To be fair, let's be sure not to exclude anything his supporters say about openness or democracy. Perhaps they two sides are using different Definitions of democracy. --Wing Nut 14:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

If you really are serious about wanting to write about these accusations, let's quote the Investor's Business Daily's editorial, The Soros Threat To Democracy. Asteriks 13:00, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

That Investor's Business Daily editorial is just that - an editorial. A poorly written and reasoned one at that. If there is any substance to the anti-democratic accusations then there has to be a better source than that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.181.208.39 (talk) 21:30, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

internal link error?[edit]

Trying to click on a link as below: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Worldwide_Initiatives_for_Grantmaker_Support&action=edit

at the page link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Society_Institute#See_also

but does not open - suspect because of the bit that reads &action=edit ?

thanks, jason avaiki 10:44, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Needs controversy section[edit]

Hi. I am not an expert on OSI. I'm probably not going to edit here. But an observation I have made is this article looks nearly totally absent of any controversy, except for one external link. It's really odd -- other wiki pages pages on such organizations have such controversy sections, whatever they may be named. But on this page such a section is strangely absent. Now I'm just looking at this as one slice in time so maybe it had one once and it was recently cut. Who knows. Anyway, that's my opinion, and I think a controversy section is warranted. According to that one external link to the IBD editorial, OSI is secretive about what it does about American policy--there is no reason Wikipedia needs to remain secretive about OSI as well. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 23:11, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

There is nothing secretive about lack of criticism, you your self said that you will not take the time to add any. Although your comment is two years old, it is still relevant, I will participating in this article and encourage anyone interested in developing a criticism section to do so.Zzzmidnight (talk) 19:35, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Puff Piece[edit]

This whole article sounds like one big PR statement. This organization is controversial, but you don't even get a hint of that here. It needs to be re-written, badly. DesScorp (talk) 22:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, here are notes from Glenn Beck's critique that should cover some of the criticisms of the OSI: [1] - At the London School of Economics, Soros discovered the work of philosopher Karl Popper, whose ideas on open society had a profound influence on his thinking. He was attracted to Popper's critique of totalitarianism,QUOTES FROM “The Open Society and Its Enemies: Hegel and Marx,” by Karl Popper (Vol. 2), by Karl Popper - The development of capitalism has led to the elimination of all classes but two, a small bourgeiouse and a huge proletariat: and the increase of misery has forced the latter to revolt against its exploiters. The conclusions are, first, that the workers must win the struggle, secondly that, by eliminating bourgeiouse, they must establish a classless society, since only one class remains. (pg 151-152) - But all over the earth, organized political power has begun to perform far-reaching economic functions. Unrestrained capitalism has given way to a new historical period, to our own period of political interventionism, of the economic interference of the state. Interventionism has assumed various forms. There is the Russian variety; there is the fascist form of totalitarianism; and their s the domestic interventionism of England, of the United States, and the “Smaller Democracies” led by Sweden where the technology of democratic intervention has reached the highest level so far. (pg 155) - Admittedly, increasing misery must produce resistance, and it is even likely to produce rebellious outbreaks. But the assumption of our argument is that the misery cannot be alleviated until victory has been won in the social revolution. (pg 163) - I am not in all cases and under all circumstance against a violent revolution. (pg 166) - …the working of democracy rests largely upon the understanding that a government which attempts to misuse its powers and to establish itself as a tyranny (or which tolerates the establishment of a tyranny by anybody else) outlaws itself, and that the citizens have not only a right, but also a duty to consider the action of such government a crime, and its members as a dangerous gang of criminals. (pg 167)


MORE ABOUT KARL POPPER http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoover-digest/article/8018 - George Soros, who first encountered The Open Society as Popper’s student at the London School of Economics, founded the Open Society Institute to propagate Popper’s ideas, particularly in Eastern Europe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redhanker (talkcontribs) 21:35, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed[edit]

One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://www.soros.org/about. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 19:27, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Karl Popper[edit]

From Karl Popper: Among Popper's students and advocates at the London School of Economics is the billionaire investor George Soros, who says his investment strategies are modelled on Popper's understanding of the advancement of knowledge through the distinctly Hegelian idea of falsification. Among Soros's philanthropic foundations is the Open Society Institute, a think-tank named in honour of Popper's The Open Society and Its Enemies, which Soros founded to advance the Popperian defense of the open society against authoritarianism and totalitarianism. Seems this should be incorporated here Redhanker (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:37, 11 November 2010 (UTC).

Some people don't like OSI but I don't see any specifics here as to why. Controversy is fine and indeed welcome, but to say that "this article is written like an advertisement" without any backup does not add to the discussion. Talk about Glen Beck & Karl Popper is irrelevant. What is right or wrong with their actual programs? Yes, Soros has given money to liberal causes (Democrats, not Republicans) in the U.S., which automatically earns him many enemies. Is he or isn't he supporting democracy abroad, with more impartiality than the U.S. government? Explain please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Towsen (talkcontribs) 02:36, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Trade unions?[edit]

the development of civil society organizations (e.g., charities, community groups and trade unions) I didn't know the OSI gave money to trade unions, it seems unlikely given the nature of the organisation. I'd like to know the source for that statement and have put a citation needed tag on it. Extua (talk) 08:38, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

I did some brief searches of their website, and didn't find references regarding support for trade unions. I removed that part from text until a more concrete source is located. It appears the "Trade Union" example may have come straight from the Civil society page, but I'm not seeing the source for it in that article either. Xenophrenic (talk) 05:53, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Regarding reference replacement[edit]

This edit claims that the reference replacement does not cover all the content. Which content is the reference citing that it covers? Thargor Orlando (talk) 14:08, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

A prior edit summary indicated which. Xenophrenic (talk) 18:32, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
The word "unitary" does not show up anywhere in the source. So we can revert and remove unitary entirely? Thargor Orlando (talk) 01:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
At Wikipedia, we convey the meaning from sources, not the exact words (unless we are quoting), lest we run afoul of WP:COPYVIO. Would you prefer a different word that has substantially the same meaning? "Singular", perhaps? What is your objection to the word "unitary"? Xenophrenic (talk) 15:50, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
I'd prefer a word that actually reflects what's being said. Given that the reference is entirely to the text of Beck's show in this instance, I'm happy with whatever can be found in his statements, given that we're working off of his beliefs. We must be very careful about deriving what we believe he means when we have clear statements about what is actually being said (another reason to avoid using biased/partisan sources when possible). Thargor Orlando (talk) 16:10, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Shows, not "show". And we shouldn't look at primary sources of his statements (transcripts, for instance) and derive what we believe he said from them, which is why we rely on secondary sources. Citing primary sources in addition to secondary sources is okay, however. If you are fine with wording that reflects what was said, then I do not see what objection you have with words like "unitary". Xenophrenic (talk) 17:58, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Unitary wasn't said, that's my objection, nor is it used in the link you added back. I agree that we should not derive anything from the primary sources: it's why I replaced the link with a transcript and we should go with perhaps a more direct quote. Is that a problem? Thargor Orlando (talk) 18:06, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Unitary was conveyed. Hard to say if there is a problem until I see the quote you are proposing. Xenophrenic (talk) 08:51, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
We remove the words "unitary global government," unless you can show where it was conveyed. Thargor Orlando (talk) 12:49, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Did you bother to read the cited source? I think you are fixated on the word "unitary" and missing it. What wording would you prefer to use? He's been accused of getting rid of individual governments with the intention of establishing a unitary global government, so how would you prefer to convey that accusation? Xenophrenic (talk) 04:54, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
I have read the source, yes. My preference is that we quote Beck directly. Thargor Orlando (talk) 12:58, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Hard to say if there is a problem until I see the quote you are proposing. Xenophrenic (talk) 19:47, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
I'd simplify the last paragraph: "Former Fox News host Glenn Beck has accused Soros of using his Open Society Foundations to intentionally undermine societies, arguing that the Open Society Foundations have too much control over academics and media, and in some countries have obtained political power that qualifies them as "shadow governments"." Thargor Orlando (talk) 13:28, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
That's not simplification; that completely removes the intent Beck ascribes to Soros' alleged undermining of various societies. Why do that? Xenophrenic (talk) 04:36, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
I don't see where I do that, seeing as "intentionally undermine societies" is in the text. Thargor Orlando (talk) 13:48, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Wrong. "intentionally undermine societies with the intention of establishing a unitary global government" is in the text. You completely remove the intent Beck ascribes to Soros' alleged undermining of various societies. Why do that? Xenophrenic (talk) 19:01, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Where is "unitary global government" in Beck's text? Thargor Orlando (talk) 21:31, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
I don't believe those words are in Beck's text; it's a close paraphrase by a WIkipedia editor(s). At Wikipedia, we convey the meaning from sources, not the exact words (unless we are quoting), lest we run afoul of WP:COPYVIO. Xenophrenic (talk) 22:23, 28 February 2013 (UTC)

Let's not use the word "unitary" unless somebody actually said it. The idea of a "unitary world government" has been thrown around so much by right wing nuts, that it has gained a meaning that has nothing to do with Soros. If Soros has said he wants a "unitary" world government, or even if some responsible person has said that he believes that Soros wants a "unitary" world government, then we might use it, but until then we can very reasonably use some other word.

As far as right-wing nuts goes - I have to say that I don't believe that Fox News or many of the Murdoch outlets qualify as reliable sources, certainly not when looking at their editorial positions regarding liberal causes and politicians. As Mike Royko said many years ago "No self-respecting dead fish would allow himself to be wrapped in a Murdoch paper." There's a special article for much of this: George Soros conspiracy theories. Beck is certainly borderline as far as the facts, but if we can allow him to state his own opinions here, without magnifying the seemingly nut-case items, then there is no reason not to let him stay on this page. Smallbones(smalltalk) 23:07, 28 February 2013 (UTC)