Talk:Operation Market Garden

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Operation Varsity Footnote[edit]

" e.^ Operation Varsity in 1945 involved more planes, gliders, and troops on D-Day than in Market, but additional airborne troops flown in on subsequent days made Market Garden the larger operation.[17]"

Operation Varsity wasn't part of D-Day. I'm not sure if I'm missing something here, but I think the mention of D-Day should be removed. It should probably say more troops etc. on a single day than in Market. Also the citation says 17, the popup text if for 8, and links to 15. Could someone with beter knowledge of the subject please update this? Isolater (talk) 02:00, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

D-Day probably refers to the day of the operation being launched, rather than 6 June. See D-Day (military term). Can someone who edits the article more frequently, confirm?EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 02:37, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Germaansche SS in Nederland[edit]

Why was this mainly political organization mentioned as a belligerent? By that time most of its members were in the Waffen-SS. Fnorp (talk) 10:41, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

You've got red on you[edit]

Repaired the unlinked references and moved unreferenced links to further reading.Keith-264 (talk) 19:49, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Bridge that "should have been" captured?[edit]

The sentence at issue currently reads "The boats were requested for late afternoon but did not arrive at that time. Once again XXX Corps was held up in front of a bridge which should have been captured before they arrived."

It might be fairer to write that "Once again XXX Corps was held up in front of a bridge which planners had expected to have been captured before they arrived." In writing "should have been", there is the implication that the airborne unit tasked with its capture had shown a lack of courage or initiative, that the air transport command had dropped them in the wrong place, or something like that.

In war, it often happens that undetected enemy reserves intervene, that the enemy acts with a degree of courage and initiative beyond the expectations of the operation's planners, or even that the enemy just gets lucky. All these things can lead to reverses that were not expected. Historygamer (talk) 21:53, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Obscure references maligning brave soldiers[edit]

Removing some of the bias against minor figures involved in the operation. It was an English operation, and a mess at that. Responsiblity for the mess is being passed to others such as the Poles and Americans who are not even listed in the commanders section. You can be sure that had it been a victory, the English would have taken full credit. Wallie (talk) 19:13, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Please learn the difference between "English" and "British". Also, please become aware of the fact that the First Allied Airborne Army, the USSAF, and RAF planned the airborne element of this operation. That is several multinational forces all playing a major role in the planning and carrying out of drop zones, objectives, flying troops in, and conducting the actual fighting. 21st Army Group, who conducted the ground portion of the advance, was also multi-national with British Second Army comprised of Belgian, English, Irish (both from the north and those who had crossed over from the Republic to fight against Nazism), Scots, Welsh, and Germans (see So drop the sarcastic racist attitude, and bring a constructive and sourced argument to the table.EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 21:51, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
LOL, racist. British is a race now, is it? <ignore> Both of you, knock it off. This is a controversial article, not at all aided by the massive amount of American vs. British finger-pointing that has dogged the topic for more than half a century. You both look very embarrassing in the year 2014 when you spout 1940s nationalism.
That said, I would note that the general historical consensus has now turned against the plan itself, while retaining a secondary appreciation for the smaller impact created by bad tactics: the American 508th PIR and the British XXX Corps both now come out of the mess looking quite crappy due to their lack of aggression compared to the other airborne units that were desperately fighting to make good on their parts of the plan. Even Gavin was regretful he didn't send his A-team to handle the bridge at Nijmegen, and Monty hated Adair (commander XXX Corps) and had wanted him replaced months ago. BUT....neither of these units decided the battle. The battle was lost before it was started. Regardless of what Patton (all tactical and 0% strategic) thought, it takes a hell of a lot of good tactics to rescue a bad strategy, but any good strategy includes an expectation of a certain amount of bad tactics. Monty's plan had zero wiggle room for bad tactics, bad weather, bad intel or bad anything else. It was a bad plan because it was a tightrope walk based on unverified expectations and unresearched assumptions. If he had not been stomping his feet so hard for a chance to rehabilitate his image as strategic master after Caen and the Falaise Gap, Ike would have rejected it and they would have done something else. He even admitted as much in his post-war writings. But Monty had pull and a flair for the dramatic and Ike had a soft spot for politics, and THAT is why current historical consensus stands where it does. No need to make the matter personal. Vintovka Dragunova (talk) 04:35, 10 July 2014 (UTC)