Talk:Orange County

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Requested move 2006[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

requested move of Orange County (disambiguation) to Orange County

  • support Tobias Conradi (Talk) 01:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • support ProveIt (talk) 02:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • support This makes perfect sense. That way no particular county can "hog" or "lay claim" to the name. Orange County, California is the most populous. Orange County, Florida is the #1 tourist destination in the world. Orange County, New York is home to Orange County Cycles – in the top-10 in internet searches.--Hokeman 03:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Support. Kafziel 17:54, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Name change[edit]

My requested move of Orange County (disambiguation) to Orange County is complete, removing the tag today. -- ProveIt (talk) 16:37, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Actor Names for the movie[edit]

This was not a very popular movie with an easily confused title. They don't have to be linked but I think it IS necessary to specify which movie it is. -Mike Payne (T • C) 06:56, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Orange County redirect[edit]

I am aware that this issue was decided back in 2006, HOWEVER, I would like to bring up the possibility of having Orange County redirect to Orange County, California and create a disambiguation page for the others. The above arguments, are indeed valid, but the most famous Orange County is the one in California. It's not even close. When traveling around the United States or abroad, I say I am from Orange County and people immediately know where I am from, no one asks "which one?" Also, if Orange County is to be lumped together with all other counties of the same name, then we should do the same for the many different cities and locales that go by Los Angeles, San Francisco, London, or even California (there is a California, Pennsylvania). Thank you for your feedback. --CASportsFan (talk) 06:35, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

What metric can we use to determine that the California county is the common usage?   Will Beback  talk  07:27, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
There is no definite metric other than one's common sense: when one says Los Angeles almost everyone realizes that that person is talking about Los Angeles, California not Los Ángeles, Argentina, Los Angeles, Texas, or Los Ángeles, Nicaragua. The same goes for London, if you are talking about the Canadian city, people generally have to qualify it with "Ontario" or "Canada." The name Orange County has become synonymous with Orange County, California thanks to the various television shows and the film. --CASportsFan (talk) 07:55, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
I have placed a move request on the Orange County, California talk page. To discuss, please go there so we can get a true consensus. --CASportsFan (talk) 07:59, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
But we're not moving that page, we'd be moving (or significantly editing) this page. Further, the watchers of the California page are more likely to favor that article. This page likely has a broader readership. Also, it's where the last discussion was held.   Will Beback  talk  08:16, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
Agreed, sorry for the confusion. --CASportsFan (talk) 08:25, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
I assume the proposal is really to make this page into a redirect, and move the existing contents to Orange County (disambiguation). I'm sympathetic to that, but I still think we need a more powerful argument than "common sense". While Google searches are useless for many conclusions, this is one area where Ghits can be persuasive. i note that many of the first 20 hits are for the California county, for example.   Will Beback  talk  08:23, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
I know this is a few years old, but I also really think this should redirect to Orange County, California. None of the other places even have half to population of the California county, let alone its Wikipedia traffic.WikiHogan654 (talk) 09:17, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Requested Move 2011[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Dpmuk (talk) 13:29, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Orange CountyOrange County (disambiguation) — See Talk:Orange County, California. CASportsFan (talk) 08:02, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Strongly Support. I would hope I would support it because I initiated it! Haha. Also, when doing a Google search for "Orange County" all but two links were concerned with Orange County, CA (the other two were government sites for Orange County, FL and Orange County, NY): Link. Also, when doing an image search, there are very few images of the counties on New York, Florida, Virginia, and Texas and when doing a Google Maps search for "Orange County," the map automatically goes to Orange County, California: Link. --CASportsFan (talk) 08:27, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

  • Keep disambiguation page. The rationale for Los Angeles occupying its spot (versus being at Los Angeles, California) is different than this- it's clearly more substantial than the other Los Angeleses, and this naming convention section gives more rationale. Orange County is different- there are Orange Counties that are within an order of magnitude of size and popularity to the California county. The naming of a TV show like Orange County Choppers shows that- it isn't "Orange County New York Choppers", after all. tedder (talk) 15:05, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Keep as a disambiguation page Although I am a southern Californian myself, I think it would be inappropriate to turn "Orange County" into a redirect to "Orange County, California" - as if it was the "real" or "only" Orange County. There are more than a million residents in Orange County, Florida, and it is a major tourist destination; it would be just as logical to redirect "Orange County" to Orange County, Florida as to Orange County, California. Orange County, New York is no slouch, and there are five other Orange Counties in the United States. Disambiguation is the appropriate treatment for this term. --MelanieN (talk) 15:24, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
P.S. I think there should be a notice placed on the talk pages of all the other Orange County pages, to notify them of this discussion. Currently the only page which directs attention here is at Talk:Orange County, California which is likely to give a skewed result. --MelanieN (talk) 17:03, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
I just put a notice of this discussion on those pages. It seems only fair. --MelanieN (talk) 03:23, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
The reason Orange County, Florida is not as well known as Orange County, California, is the fact that people know that region of Florida by it's seat: Orlando, Florida. If one is going to Disney World, they fly to Orlando, if they are going to Disneyland, they fly into Orange County (or LAX, but that's beside the point). Although Orange County, California has larger or cities just as populous as Orlando, (Anaheim, Santa Ana, and Irvine), they are not known nationally like Orlando is and that is probably another reason why Orange County is usually synonymous with the California county. --CASportsFan (talk) 20:11, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
Don't be so sure. Yes, you can fly into the Orange County (California) airport, but that's not it's name; it's been John Wayne Airport since 1979. And on the other hand, the second largest convention center in the country is Orange County Convention Center, located in... Florida. The two counties are really pretty much on a par as far as notablitity goes. And I say that as a Californian. --MelanieN (talk) 03:11, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Keep disambiguation page; the one in California probably is the most famous, but not enough more famous to be the primary topic. Powers T 01:53, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
  • Keep disambiguation page The one in CA is not of enough national or international prominence. For example, most Texans outside of recent transplants will equate casual mention of "Orange County" with Orange County, Texas -- It's not like Paris vs Paris, Texas. I realize that this may boggle the minds of Californians, but really we aren't all thinking about you all the time. -Ben (talk) 10:45, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
Aside from that not-so-subtle jab, if you look above you'll notice that Californians are generally opposed to the rename. tedder (talk) 12:50, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
Sure -- meant all in fun, I assure you. A couple of more substantial points, though are that there exists a substantial population of the US who lives near one of the non-CA Orange Counties, for whom "Orange County" refers to the version in their own state. Another point is that (older?) people like myself who are unfamiliar with the recent "Orange County" media. -Ben (talk) 16:37, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Proposed move, redux[edit]

I see that there have been discussions before about whether Orange County should be moved to Orange County (disambiguation), and then redirected to Orange County, California. I hope this is not a touchy subject, but I had not seen the earlier discussions. The positions on the move all seem to be based on things like google searches (which are a helpful factor, see WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, but only one factor); and gut feels and "common sense," which aren't very persuasive.

I ran a few numbers, and I think they really call for the move; based on my review of these, it seems clear to me that all three quantitative measures I looked at point to the California county as the primary topic.

Orange County disambiguation analysis
Article Erroneous links to Orange County disambiguation page that should link to the indicated article Incoming links to article Article traffic (January 2011)
name count percent count percent count percent
Orange County, California 19 86.2% 2682 45.3% 78261 73.1%
Orange County, Florida 0 0.0% 703 11.9% 7995 7.5%
Orange County, Indiana 0 0.0% 303 5.1% 1016 0.9%
Orange County, New York 2 9.1% 1019 17.2% 11541 10.8%
Orange County, North Carolina 0 0.0% 399 6.7% 3094 2.9%
Orange County, Texas 0 0.0% 133 2.2% 1383 1.3%
Orange County, Vermont 0 0.0% 278 4.7% 963 0.9%
Orange County, Virginia 1 4.5% 399 6.7% 2757 2.6%
Totals 22 100.0% 5916 100.0% 107010 100.0%

Erroneous links. At present (February 21, 2011), there are 22 articles that erroneously link to Orange County, where the editor who added the link apparently expected to link to a particular Orange County. In all but three of these instances (i.e. 86%), the desired target was the California county. There were 19 to the California county; 2 to the New York county; and 1 to the Virginia county; and none whatsoever to the other five counties. This shows that, in an overwhelming majority of the cases when an editor is including a reference to Orange County, he or she has the California county in mind. If the page were moved, readers of the article would be sent to the correct article when clicking on the link; readers of those 3 other articles would be sent to the wrong page, of course; but it would be topped with a hatnote indicating that "Orange County" redirects there, and there are other uses.

Incoming links. This is the first factor listed at WP:PRIMARYTOPIC: "Incoming wikilinks from Special:WhatLinksHere." At present (February 21, 2011), there are 5916 links to one or another of the Orange County articles. Almost half of them (45%) are to the article on the California county. The California county article has more links to it than the next four highest articles (New York, Florida, North Carolina, & Virginia) combined. this suggests to me, again, that the California county is the primary topic.

Article traffic. This is, I think, the best indicator of primary topic, as it shows directly what articles are being most accessed and most read. I checked traffic for January 2011, the most recent complete month, using the Wikipedia article traffic statistics tool. By this measure, a substantial majority (about 3/4) of page views of the articles were for the article on the California county; that is, the California article is accessed at a rate three times higher than all the other articles combined. This factor alone would make me conclude that the California county is the primary topic here; the other factors just make that even clearer.

It seems very obvious to me that, using objective quantitative measurements, Orange County, California is the primary topic here. All three measures I checked indicate that. I think numbers like this are a better mechanism than a feeling of what seems appropriate or seems to be "common sense". This is not a matter of Californians not appreciating or respecting other areas of the country. It's about having Wikipedia readers go promptly to the most appropriate article when searching for it, while still facilitating getting to similarly named articles in those fewer cases where the primary topic was not the desired one. TJRC (talk) 22:25, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

You make a strong case.   Will Beback  talk  23:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)