Requested move 2006
This was not a very popular movie with an easily confused title. They don't have to be linked but I think it IS necessary to specify which movie it is. -Mike Payne (T • C) 06:56, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Orange County redirect
I am aware that this issue was decided back in 2006, HOWEVER, I would like to bring up the possibility of having Orange County redirect to Orange County, California and create a disambiguation page for the others. The above arguments, are indeed valid, but the most famous Orange County is the one in California. It's not even close. When traveling around the United States or abroad, I say I am from Orange County and people immediately know where I am from, no one asks "which one?" Also, if Orange County is to be lumped together with all other counties of the same name, then we should do the same for the many different cities and locales that go by Los Angeles, San Francisco, London, or even California (there is a California, Pennsylvania). Thank you for your feedback. --CASportsFan (talk) 06:35, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
- What metric can we use to determine that the California county is the common usage? Will Beback talk 07:27, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
- There is no definite metric other than one's common sense: when one says Los Angeles almost everyone realizes that that person is talking about Los Angeles, California not Los Ángeles, Argentina, Los Angeles, Texas, or Los Ángeles, Nicaragua. The same goes for London, if you are talking about the Canadian city, people generally have to qualify it with "Ontario" or "Canada." The name Orange County has become synonymous with Orange County, California thanks to the various television shows and the film. --CASportsFan (talk) 07:55, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
- I have placed a move request on the Orange County, California talk page. To discuss, please go there so we can get a true consensus. --CASportsFan (talk) 07:59, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
- But we're not moving that page, we'd be moving (or significantly editing) this page. Further, the watchers of the California page are more likely to favor that article. This page likely has a broader readership. Also, it's where the last discussion was held. Will Beback talk 08:16, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
- I assume the proposal is really to make this page into a redirect, and move the existing contents to Orange County (disambiguation). I'm sympathetic to that, but I still think we need a more powerful argument than "common sense". While Google searches are useless for many conclusions, this is one area where Ghits can be persuasive. i note that many of the first 20 hits are for the California county, for example. Will Beback talk 08:23, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
Requested Move 2011
Proposed move, redux
I see that there have been discussions before about whether Orange County should be moved to Orange County (disambiguation), and then redirected to Orange County, California. I hope this is not a touchy subject, but I had not seen the earlier discussions. The positions on the move all seem to be based on things like google searches (which are a helpful factor, see WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, but only one factor); and gut feels and "common sense," which aren't very persuasive.
I ran a few numbers, and I think they really call for the move; based on my review of these, it seems clear to me that all three quantitative measures I looked at point to the California county as the primary topic.
|Article||Erroneous links to Orange County disambiguation page that should link to the indicated article||Incoming links to article||Article traffic (January 2011)|
|Orange County, California||19||86.2%||2682||45.3%||78261||73.1%|
|Orange County, Florida||0||0.0%||703||11.9%||7995||7.5%|
|Orange County, Indiana||0||0.0%||303||5.1%||1016||0.9%|
|Orange County, New York||2||9.1%||1019||17.2%||11541||10.8%|
|Orange County, North Carolina||0||0.0%||399||6.7%||3094||2.9%|
|Orange County, Texas||0||0.0%||133||2.2%||1383||1.3%|
|Orange County, Vermont||0||0.0%||278||4.7%||963||0.9%|
|Orange County, Virginia||1||4.5%||399||6.7%||2757||2.6%|
Erroneous links. At present (February 21, 2011), there are 22 articles that erroneously link to Orange County, where the editor who added the link apparently expected to link to a particular Orange County. In all but three of these instances (i.e. 86%), the desired target was the California county. There were 19 to the California county; 2 to the New York county; and 1 to the Virginia county; and none whatsoever to the other five counties. This shows that, in an overwhelming majority of the cases when an editor is including a reference to Orange County, he or she has the California county in mind. If the page were moved, readers of the article would be sent to the correct article when clicking on the link; readers of those 3 other articles would be sent to the wrong page, of course; but it would be topped with a hatnote indicating that "Orange County" redirects there, and there are other uses.
Incoming links. This is the first factor listed at WP:PRIMARYTOPIC: "Incoming wikilinks from Special:WhatLinksHere." At present (February 21, 2011), there are 5916 links to one or another of the Orange County articles. Almost half of them (45%) are to the article on the California county. The California county article has more links to it than the next four highest articles (New York, Florida, North Carolina, & Virginia) combined. this suggests to me, again, that the California county is the primary topic.
Article traffic. This is, I think, the best indicator of primary topic, as it shows directly what articles are being most accessed and most read. I checked traffic for January 2011, the most recent complete month, using the Wikipedia article traffic statistics tool. By this measure, a substantial majority (about 3/4) of page views of the articles were for the article on the California county; that is, the California article is accessed at a rate three times higher than all the other articles combined. This factor alone would make me conclude that the California county is the primary topic here; the other factors just make that even clearer.
It seems very obvious to me that, using objective quantitative measurements, Orange County, California is the primary topic here. All three measures I checked indicate that. I think numbers like this are a better mechanism than a feeling of what seems appropriate or seems to be "common sense". This is not a matter of Californians not appreciating or respecting other areas of the country. It's about having Wikipedia readers go promptly to the most appropriate article when searching for it, while still facilitating getting to similarly named articles in those fewer cases where the primary topic was not the desired one. TJRC (talk) 22:25, 21 February 2011 (UTC)