Talk:Orgasm

prolactine, ~depressed mood, ~irritation

In the preface you can read following: "Prolactin is a typical neuroendocrine response in depressed mood and irritation." This is wrong sentence, prolactine indeed has some inhibitory effects on sexual drive, but it is not associated with depressed mood. Drugs such as SSRI which cause higher prolactine release do not bring about depression! Moreover, mild depression seems to increase sexual drive. It seems like only severe depression can cause impotence, but that is not the specific effect in depreesion, it seems rather that all nervous system functions deteriorate in depression. I would also be very careful with the word "irritation" as irritation is rather psychological fenomenon, an emotional thing that occurs as a part of cognitive processes. Article needs correction!!

Multiple

I suggest to change "For some women, their clitoris and nipples are very sensitive after climax, making additional stimulation initially painful." to "For some women, their clitoris and nipples, and for some men, their penis, are very sensitive after climax, making additional stimulation initially painful." I know that Wikipedia prefers scientific to anecdotal evidence, but maybe my testimony (I am one of those "some") will be enough. As a new user I cannot make that change. Alexander Gras (talk) 10:56, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Alexander Gras. Welcome to Wikipedia. Wikipedia goes by WP:Reliable sources. Adding in information based on only one's personal experience is WP:Original research, which is not allowed. The line there now should be sourced as well. If you can find a reliable source for what you want to add, then there isn't a problem with including your suggestion. Flyer22 (talk) 21:46, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Illogical redirect - removal request

I came here researching:- Sigmund Freud > Polymorphous perversity > Sexual gratification before crashing into one of the heads of the double headed bane of Wiki: the Redirect (FWIW the other being the Merge). Polymorphous pervesity is part of Freud's conceptualisation of sexual development and something quite remote from current concepts of the adult human orgasm.

This article is exclusively concerned with adult sexual orgasm. I believe that the redirect should be removed as it is illogical. I have commented to this effect on the Redirect's Talk Page, but in the meantime am forced to continue researching for this mahor element of Freud's thinking elsewhere. LookingGlass (talk) 11:44, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

"Female Orgasm Weasel Word- Minor Edit Request

I cannot edit this page because of its semi-protected status, but I am concerned about the following sentence in the second paragraph of the "Female Orgasm" section: "This is because the clitoris has over 6,000-8,000 sensory nerve fibers, reportedly more than any other part of the human body." Reportedly? Are there reliable sources disputing the fact that the glans clitoris has more nerve-endings concentrated in a single area than any other body part? I've read that the bottom of the foot has more nerve-endings (through a cursory google search), but the concentration of these nerve endings is also key. I request a removal of the word "reportedly," and perhaps a rewording to "This is because the clitoris has between 6,000-8,000 sensory nerve fibers concentrated in a relatively small area, more than any other human body part."

Thanks. 69.112.123.68 (talk) 02:26, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Hey, IP. Your request is sensible, and I have removed "reportedly." I included it while adding the material because it is only attributed to one woman (Rebecca Chalker), even though she is basically an expert on the female orgasm, and I would rather have some scientific sources backing this up. I haven't read her whole book, so maybe she has some scientific findings included in it. Flyer22 (talk) 03:23, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I'd also included "over" instead of your suggested wording of "between" because in this source, she says, "What female body part has over 6,000 nerve fibers, is the key to women's sexual pleasure, and has managed to elude countless female anatomy books? The Clitoris." And in this source (page 3), she says, "The clitoris is a powerful organ of sexual pleasure. The tip or glans alone has more than 8,000 sensory nerve endings-more than any other part of the human body."

I'm not sure if she's using "nerve fibers" to mean something different than nerve endings or if she's just being more exact in the second source. But even if "just being more exact in the second source," she's indicating that there are many more than just 8,000 by saying "[t]he tip or glans alone." I wasn't sure if I should report this information in a way that would confuse people about what nerve fibers and endings are, how to make it clearer that there may be well over 8,000, or if I should just report the 8,000 bit. I also realized that combining the information in the way that I have may be considered WP:SYNTHESIS. Flyer22 (talk) 03:43, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

Update: I went ahead and went with one source, changing the text to "Clitoral orgasms are easier to achieve because the tip or glans of the clitoris alone has more than 8,000 sensory nerve endings, more than any other part of the human body." Flyer22 (talk) 17:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Inappropriate photo?

How does the Frenzy of Exultations illustrate an orgasm? There is no source for this at all, nor is this even mentioned in the article for the painting. - It's totally WP:OR, most likely incorrect information. I suggest it should be removed. • GunMetal Angel 05:18, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

WP:Consensus was formed for keeping the image last year, at Talk:Orgasm/Archive 2#extremely offensive and opressive, and the editors seemed pretty confident that the image is symbolic of having an orgasm. The editors' main reason for keeping the image was that there is no better image that could be found to depict this topic without using a pornographic image. Even if using a non-pornographic image, they pointed out the difficulty in depicting just what an orgasm is...just like with the current image. So that is why the image was kept. Read the discussion, and you will better understand why it remains as the lead image in this article. I didn't have strong feelings about the image then, and I don't now. But I agree with not having an explicit image of sexual activity as the lead image. WP:UNCENSORED is not a reason to use such images when they are not needed and/or don't significantly enhance the reader's understanding of a topic. Flyer22 (talk) 06:49, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Dysfunction Stat

"Even women who orgasm on a regular basis only climax about 50 to 70 percent of the time." I could not find support for this claim in any of the citations. Also, even if this data is valid, the 50-70% number must apply to that group of women as a whole -- not to every member of the group. However, I'm worried that this statement might be misinterpreted as meaning that every (or most) women climax at most 70 percent of the time.

Maybe the sentence could be changed to something like "Some women only climax about 50 to 70 percent of the time." Or maybe we could refer to this stat instead:

• Only 29% of women always have orgasms with their partner (Laumann, Gagnon, Michael, Michaels, 1994).

http://www.iub.edu/~kinsey/resources/FAQ.html#orgasm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.170.147.73 (talk) 10:47, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

I believe the line is backed to the "Frank JE, Mistretta P, Will" and "Giustozzi AA" sources. An editor added this line to the Sexual intercourse article with those sources some time ago, and I transferred it here. I think I originally had access to these two sources, but I no longer do. Judging by your comment, it seems you only have access to the abstract of the first source and, like me, are denied access to the second source. I don't see how the line can be misinterpreted in the way that you describe. It clearly says "Even women who orgasm on a regular basis only climax about 50 to 70 percent of the time." It's specifically talking about women who orgasm on a regular basis, most likely women who orgasm on a regular basis with their partner, because women who masturbate, using direct clitoral stimulation, usually reach orgasm without any difficulty. Your link backs the "alone to have orgasms" reality by saying, "Women are much more likely to be nearly always or always orgasmic when alone than with a partner." Orgasm through direct clitoral stimulation being easier than orgasm through vaginal penetration is already made clear in the Female orgasm part of the Achieving orgasm section. But to make this clear for the line in question, I've added your suggested line (the version seen in the source) before it. Hopefully, people will not think it is contradictory to the line after it, because, as stated, the already-existing line is talking about women who orgasm on a regular basis. Your line is talking about women who orgasm in general...and always with a partner. To make it even clearer, I clarified the line in question to say "with a partner" as well, since research has shown that women who masturbate usually do so with direct clitoral stimulation and generally always reach orgasm that way.

Also, I removed the third reference -- Richard Birch -- from the already-existing line because it doesn't back it at all (it actually backs the first line in the paragraph...sort of). I'll try to gain access to the aforementioned sources. If the sources say "Even women who orgasm on a regular basis only climax about 50 to 70 percent of the time.", we are not supposed to change that to "Some women only climax about 50 to 70 percent of the time." If the data is correct, while 50 to 70 percent may not apply to all the women studied, that is the general range that resulted from the study or studies, which I feel is clear. And, really, this data isn't too different than what a line from the source you provided says: "...among women currently in a partnered relationship, 62% say they are very satisfied with the frequency/consistency of orgasm (Davis, Blank, Hung-Yu, & Bonillas, 1996)." Sure, it doesn't say "62% of the time," but I'm getting the same vibe from it that I get from the data already in the article. Excellent site to link to, by the way. I've used that Kinsey resources site for references for the Sexual intercourse article. But it's odd that that the Orgasm section of that site doesn't mention clitoral stimulation. It mentions women having orgasms much easier through oral sex and by themselves, which usually implies clitoral stimulation, but it doesn't mention it directly. Despite the fact that Kinsey's research, like others', show that most of their female subjects could only reach orgasm through clitoral stimulation. Kinsey was the first researcher to blast/criticize Freud's "vaginal orgasm for mature women" theory, from what I've read, which I just added to the article. Flyer22 (talk) 22:01, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I found "Frank JE, Mistretta P, Will" here: http://www.aafp.org/afp/2008/0301/p635.html. However, I was unable to access "Giustozzi AA", as you mentioned.

You have a very interesting point about the fact that "29% of women always have orgasms with their partner" does not contradict "Even women who orgasm on a regular basis with their partner only climax about 50 to 70 percent of the time." At first, I thought it did, but you're right -- it doesn't contradict it. However, if both those statements are true, it has a somewhat surprising implication. It means that most of the "29% of women who always have orgasms with their partner" do not also "orgasm on a regular basis with their partner" (since presumably the women in the first category climax 100% of the time with their partner, and "Even women who orgasm on a regular basis..." implies that they are not well represented in the second category). 216.38.147.4 (talk) 03:56, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the link. I don't see the "50 to 70 percent of the time" info in that link, unless I missed it. And since you still said "if both those statements are true," I take it you didn't find the info in that source either. But as for the implications, if both statements are true, I don't understand what you mean. The "29% of women who always have orgasms with their partner" line is about women who always orgasm with their partner. The "Even women who orgasm on a regular basis only climax about 50 to 70 percent of the time." line is about women who regularly orgasm with their partner...but not always. And we know that the latter line is also about "sex with a partner" because, as stated, women who masturbate usually reach orgasm. I'm going to clarify "not always" in the article for the second line, like I did for the Sexual intercourse article hours ago. I'm also going to look for something to specifically support the "50 to 70 percent of the time" line, and, if I don't find anything to support it, I will remove it (while keeping the line you proposed in of course). Something to also keep in mind is whether or not this information has been consistently reported. It may be that we need to include wording along the lines of "According to a [so and so] study..." Flyer22 (talk) 05:12, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I didn't see any support in that source either. Also, your "but not always" clears things up nicely. Thanks!99.185.246.243 (talk) 01:00, 9 January 2012 (UTC)