Talk:Ottoman Empire

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Former good article Ottoman Empire was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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Semi-protected edit request on 2 March 2014[edit]

The section on Samuel Morse and the electric telegraph is in conflict with the main Wikipedia article on the electric telegraph and appears to be inaccurate. Corduanp (talk) 18:44, 2 March 2014 (UTC) Peter Corduan

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:03, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I noticed what Peter noticed, in that the article claims that a patent was issued for Moore's telegraph in 1947, and that is was the first one for that device worldwide, which is contradicted by the article on the telegraph, which indicates that it was patented in 1937 in the U.S. I checked the link that this article used to support that claim, and I believe it to be highly propagandistic in nature. I'm new, and not sure how to proceed on this. CaptainLego (talk) 14:34, 2 July 2014 (UTC)


X mark.svg Not done I can't find a Morse patent in 1837, although this page states "The Telegraph was invented by Samuel Morse in 1837 (US patent No. 1647)" However, Morse's patent 1647 "Improvement in the mode of communicating information by signals by the application of electro-magnetism" was applied for on 7 April 1838 and patented on June 20 1840 as can be seen here.
Although these dates are all before 1847, this article only states "Samuel Morse received a patent for the telegraph in 1847, which was issued by Sultan Abdülmecid" - Patents were issued on a country by country basis, so it is entirely possible that Morse did receive a patent from Sultan Abdülmecid in 1847. In the context of showing how the country was modernizing, this shows the Sultan was willing to consider and implement new ideas.
Furthermore, despite the last poster's statement, I do not see any claim in the article, that it "was the first one for that device worldwide", notwithstanding the claim in the original source. I also note that the source uses the wayback machine, so presumably this claim is not on a current web-site.
So, assuming good faith, the statement appears entirely plausible - a patent was issued by Sultan Abdülmecid in 1847, although a less contentious source would be preferable - Arjayay (talk) 15:31, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

I remained interested in this topic, and found a few seemingly more reliable sources. It appears that Morse was not present for the demonstration of the telegraph, which isn't explicitly stated or refuted in the article, but possibly implied. In addition, the Encyclopedia of the Ottoman Empire (http://books.google.com/books?id=QjzYdCxumFcC&pg=PA557&lpg=PA557&dq=Sultan+Abd%C3%BClmecid+and+the+telegraph&source=bl&ots=PeV6N7IEw3&sig=aGpk7Yg0v4vIzMFRaG30v-T2_Dg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hC20U4zcCpGDqgatjICYAw&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Sultan%20Abd%C3%BClmecid%20and%20the%20telegraph&f=false)states that construction of telegraph lines in Turkey did not begin until the Crimean War, which started in 1853, after the date proposed by this article. Can anyone find anything to reconcile this? Or should it be rewritten? CaptainLego (talk) 16:13, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Question about the empire's territorial extent.[edit]

I have been doing some editing on the List of Largest Empires article and I noticed that the Ottoman Empire is noted for having an approximate extent of 5.2 km at it's height. Yet the map in the infobox seems to contradict that. The map depicts the Ottoman Empire being larger than the Roman Empire, which was 6.5 km at it's height. That being said, wouldn't we agree that the map overexaggerates the extent of the empire? Kirby (talk) 21:38, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Well since the romans controlled about 70% of the land the Ottomans did at their height and held Spain, Portugal, France, Belgium, Italy, England, and parts of Germany on top of that I think it makes up for the size difference of about 1.3 million kms, perhaps the issue may be how Crimea is depicted (about half of the territory pictured was a vassal, although one whose sovereignty was more like a province than a vassal nation) but that only accounts for a small amount of land, and the rest of the map is very accurate to dozens upon dozens of ottoman and foreign records, so I don't think there is that much to be changed, look at this map I linked to Rome's wikipedia page and compare it to this Ottoman one and you can see that most ottoman land is held and western europe on top of that -
- Rome - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Roman_Empire_Trajan_117AD.png
- ottomans --- https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/OttomanEmpireIn1683.png
70.69.172.92 (talk) 08:52, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
Sudan was theoretically part of the Ottoman Empire after its conquest by the Egyptians, so maybe that's being included? john k (talk) 04:17, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Included where? Moreover, in the article the Khedivate of Egypt is consider a successor state of the Empire, so we cannot consider Sudan as an Ottoman conquest. Alex2006 (talk) 04:46, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
Included in the total land area? At any rate, given that the Khedive was ostensibly an Ottoman official ruling in the name of the Sultan (and, indeed, Khedive was a title granted by the sultan), I'm not sure I get why Sudan should not be considered as being under Ottoman suzerainty in the mid-late 19th century. Certainly "it contradicts something that another wikipedia article says" is not actually an argument. john k (talk) 15:38, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Of course not, but if we put Sudan as Ottoman, then we have a contradiction in the article. Egypt was de jure ottoman, de facto autonomous. I think that one should consider how the other vassal states were handled, and then look at the sources. Alex2006 (talk) 16:12, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed[edit]

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Kosovo[edit]

There seems to be something wrong in the last two sentences under "Rise" - "Only Albania was able to resist, due to the leadership of its national hero, Skanderbeg (George Kastrioti), who finally was routed by the sultan at the second Battle of Kosovo (1448). Four years later, János Hunyadi prepared another army (of Hungarian and Wallachian forces) to attack the Turks but was again defeated by Murad II at the Second Battle of Kosovo in 1448."

Should the first sentence read " ...first Battle of Kosovo (1444)" ?? Baska436 (talk) 01:49, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the two sentences in question are indeed wrong. Albania as state did not exist at that time while Skanderbeg did not even participate at the Second Battle of Kosovo in 1448.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:40, 27 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you Anti. I really don't know anything about the subject, but I was struck by the contradiction in the dates (second battle 1448, ... four years later ... second battle 1448). I suggesst altering it to say something like " ... crusade of Varna. Albanians, under their national hero Skanderbeg, continued to resist. Four years later János Hunyadi prepared another army (of Hungarian and Wallachian forces) to attack the Turks but was again defeated by Murad II at the Second Battle of Kosovo in 1448." Baska436 (talk) 12:10, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
The problematic text was added by IP editor with this edits (diffs) and should be removed from the text of the article because it is so wrong it can not be repaired. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 16:04, 28 July 2014 (UTC)