Talk:Outlaw Star

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Good article Outlaw Star has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
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Date Process Result
December 22, 2010 Peer review Reviewed
November 13, 2011 Good article nominee Listed
Current status: Good article
WikiProject Anime and manga (Rated GA-class, Low-importance)
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What type of hero?[edit]

This:

This anime may offend some viewers by presenting heroes who are meant to be sympathetic but who would be considered objectionable by both old-fashioned European chivalry and more recent American feminism.

really isn't true. Outlaw Star is no different from Firefly, Cowboy Bebop or Han Solo in that regard. I've never heard a word of objection to the show on that point. It's called the anti-hero. RADICALBENDER 15:54, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Removed text about banned episode[edit]

I removed the following text from the article. It rambles and was attached to the first paragraph, where it doesn't belong. However, it may be of interest if reinserted elsewhere. Triskaideka 03:23, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Although Episode 23 Hot Springs Planet Tenrei was banned from airing on Cartoon Network due to Nudity issues (Because the FCC dictates that any nude scene or a scene that might be too revealing towards women is forbidden to air on TV) caused by too many scenes that were too revealing that would have made it too difficult to edit out and also part of the plot was also with Gene being a bit of a dirty lech who was ordered to get dirty footage of a woman in order to some special Caster Shells. The only downside to this that on Cartoon Network that Special Caster Shells magically appeared when Cartoon Network first aired Episode 24 with no explanition on how Gene got them. This episode though is currently only availible on DVD
I changed 'DVD only' to include VHS, as I recently bought the complete series on VHS and it includes the episode (actually, it's the cover image and title of one of the volumes).MardukZero 04:02, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

To the person who deleted my previous article

Thanks to you I made a shorter much more simple article which I put below the Opening and Endings in its own section if you don't want it there you can move it where you want it.

It looks good to me there. Thank you. Triskaideka 14:09, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Certainly a lot was wrong with that.. the 'fuck' was vandalism.. and the FCC has nothing to do with cable programming..
The FCC indeed does not have any jurisdiction regarding cable television, as evidinced by comedy central's Secret stash block and AZN's airing of various anime's (Record of lodoss war, Patlabor etc.) unedited. however the parent companies of most cable networks are leery of crossing lines set down by the FCC for fear of aleinating advertisers.
the show was on adult swim so they would have to take out that episode since adult swim was for ages 13+ and including me back then some people under 13 watched adult swim.

Darthwin24.125.84.98 22:54, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Dates[edit]

Would be ggod to have dates made and first aired in Japan and elsewhere. Also dates of release of VHS/DVD. Rich Farmbrough 00:09, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Censored or Uncensored?[edit]

Althought the majority of Outlaw Star programming on Cartoon Network was censored at times they would let foul language such as damn or hell slip through the cracks. This was also true for some of the other anime programming shown on CN.

While the censors did let some language through in most cases it was actually toning down of much stronger language, alot of times when it says damn or hell in the aired versions it'll say shit or fuck on the uncensored DvD. Also there were numerous scenes taken out in multiple episodes (genes interactions with whores, hilda, pretty much every woman he had any signifigant contact with) and don't even get me started on Fred Lou, in the uncencored version his sexual orientation comes off ALOT stronger, if you can believe that. Overall what was originally aired on Toonami and later adult swim was not nearly so adult in nature as how the creators originally intended.

quote[edit]

i'm a fan of this anime, but that quote section is crap.

The quotes section definitely has no purpose in this article. The quotes don't make much sense taken out of context like they are. Is there any explaination as to why those specific quotes belong in the article? --TheKoG 01:07, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Characters[edit]

At the beginning, "The main characters of the show mostly follow generic anime stereotypes, including the ice-cold swordswoman and the catgirl." This is quite biased, no? Consider it removed.--71.112.234.168 06:47, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. Especially since I've actually yet to see an "ice-cold swordswoman" pop up as an actual stereotype in anime, and "catgirl" isn't a stereotype so much it's a common anthropomorphic theme in character designs - a cliche design, I suppose, but it's hardly a stereotype, I think. "Cat girls" have ranged from the innocent to the not-so-innocent, from the slightly chicken and very girlish (Tokyo Mew-Mew), to the robotic (Nuku-Nuku), to the violent (Aisha from this anime). It's a style of visual design, not character archetype, which the person who wrote that sentence seems to have confused with "stereotype", among other things. 4.235.69.102 05:33, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Aisha is actually the unique "Ditzy Jock Cat-girl," never seen before nor since. Whoever thought that was generic is obviously very shallow. Nagakura shin8 09:06, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Edited the descriptions for Melfina, Harry MacDougal, Professor Gwen Khan, Hanmyo and Iraga as well as tweaking the description for the Galactic Leyline. Made the character descriptions more clearer. The major upgrade I'd say would be to that of Melfina's description. Added more about her personality and other information that was presented in the anime or inferred.

OAV[edit]

I changed OAV to OVA. OAV means Original Adult Video, which is not what the writer meant to say, obviously.

To the vast majority of anime fans, OAV and OVA are interchangable, and both are used by distributors to mean the same. It's either Original Animated Video or Original Video Animation.
Huh? I've never once seen a Japanese company (or a US company for that matter) use the term OAV. They all use OVA.
I've seen many an anime fan or anime magazine (including professional publications) use either. In English they really would be pretty much the same, believe it or not; I've never even heard of this "Original Adult Video" meaning, at least in terms of anime. However, since they're used interchangeably, I see no real problem with it being changed, so long as it's kept consistent within the article. Runa27 00:13, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Hawking[edit]

Is there any influence on Jim's name from Stephen Hawking? I didn't want to insert in myself, as it might be original research. --King of All the Franks 18:05, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

There's nothing that would back that up that I'm aware of. Eluchil 01:01, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
It is possible. There is also Ron and Harry MacDougall, similar to the main characters of the Harry Potter book series. The writers are well read, or this is a very unlikely coincidence.
I think Jim Hawking is named after the protagonist in Treasure Island, named Jim Hawkiins.
I"m pretty sure Outlaw Star pre-dates Harry Potter, plus I"m sure of all the names to reference in the world, a Japanese man would reference an England author's secondary characters.
Harry Potter is 4 years older. But doesn't matter. MacDougall is a fairly common name...as are Ron and Harry...

I apologize for the date error, although I still agree with others, that MacDougall is a fairly common name. SRussellN 03:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Second season[edit]

It says the second season was released to 45 people. This isn't true is it? I think it needs a source. --Zeno McDohl 02:01, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

If it is I wanna kill myself, this being one of my favorite anime's, but why would they produce an entire second season and then not even sell the DVD's? Even if the show was pulled you'd think they'd try to make back the production costs on DVD sales. --DevilDude 04-06-06 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.23.168.103 (talkcontribs)
I do not believe there is a second season of "Outlaw Star". There is, however, a spinoff series (which crosses over with it a little) called "Angel Links", which is mentioned in the article. ("Angel Links", if I'm to judge by the reviews I read back when it came out, wasn't nearly as good as OS, but was OK.) 4.235.69.102 05:36, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I have been doing a search for a second season so far there is mention of outlaw star 2: retaliation and an ova called sword of wind. Of course all websites mentioning them are dated back to 2002 i believe if there is any truth to this it should be sought out and mentioned on the page 4:50, 24 April 2007.


When I get time --SRussellN 01:35, 26 June 2007 When I get time, I'll upload all the old information, and pics I have about the "second season", which isn't much other than the fan-service pictures released on the original Outlaw Star page, but I believe it needs to be included and documented.

Angel Links[edit]

I changed Angel Links from an OVA series to a television series; it was broadcast. CFLeon 00:21, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


If any body has any idea of a second season of outlaw star or a second manga PLEASE tell me about it i love that show

Character Clean-up[edit]

I've tried to clean-up the character listing to be somewhat more pleasing with the breaks. I also edited Fred's entry; the entry included a fairly blaitant opinion which I felt was unwarrented. Even with CN's toning down the gay aspects of his character, I still got the implication when I saw it. CFLeon 21:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

best collection[edit]

Is Outlaw Star: Complete Collection the most complete and 'best' English collection currently available? I feel it would be very beneficial to give the title of the 'best' collection, just as ISBN numbers are often given for books. Many visitors interested in Outlaw Star would find this information very very helpful. 4.89.247.203 00:25, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Why not ask Amazon? --Zeno McDohl 14:08, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Manga[edit]

Information about the manga version of Outlaw Star is very lacking in this article. It says "Outlaw Star takes the characters from the original manga but has a completely different story.", but nowhere in the article is there any information about how the manga and anime stories differ. 71.203.209.0 18:25, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I concur. I am a fan of this anime, and I would like to know if there is an English verison of the manga, or even a scanlation. If there isn't, then I'll accept at least a description of the manga. Wikifan42 23:59, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

There is no English version of the Outlaw Star manga series, though it was rumored that Viz Media was going to release them at one point. I actually do have 3 of the Japanese manga though and yes, it does differ greatly from the show. Honestly I can't read the manga since I don't know Japanese, but from what I can tell it seems to be the overall same plot though. As for a description of the manga, the best I can do is just name a few things off the top of my that are different: They don't get the Outlaw Star in space but right there in Sentinel 3, Gene is the one that kills Hilda after they fight and she cuts off his arm, Melfina seems very attracted to Gene and acts much differently from the anime, Melfina also seems to have a clone or something that appears later, there is much more nudity and sexual scenes, and some characters and objects look different from the anime as well.(By the way, I'm thinking of selling them on eBay sometime, so if anyone wants to buy...they're pretty rare now.) Link's Awakening 01:21, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

here is a link to a page that has a short summary of the manga plot. its only seems ti be the first few chapter though. http://www.ex.org/5.6/40-mangaj_outlawstar.html

if someone could just re-type that or something, that would be helpful.

I have added my take on the first two books, including some major spoilers. I added them because I wanted anyone who couldn't get the very hard to get mangas to be able to know what their missing. I may make an abstract of the plots of those to allow those who don't want spoilers, but I'll get to that at a later date. SRussellN 03:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

If you wish to add information about the manga, please submit a link with a reliable plot summary or translation of the manga. What you submitted is basically your own interpretation based on scenes but not context or dialogue; otherwise it's insufficient information. Wikipedia is about verifiability, not personal guesswork. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.242.82.149 (talk) 04:38, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Trivia Additions[edit]

The two following paragraphs were added to the trivia section:

"In the ending credits, there are art renditions of mysterious girls who have absolutely no relevence to any part in the story (with the exception of what appears to be Melfina at the last art rendition in endings of episodes 14-26). This issue has left many fans confused and furthermore with it's lack of debate."

I thought all the grls were different artistic interpretations of Melfina. They all certainly seem to share her innocence and charm, especially the one who's petting that fox/wolf creature in the episode 1 - 13 closing titles. Lee M (talk) 14:50, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

"The Munchausen Drive that powers FTL travel in the series makes reference to Baron Munchausen, the subject of a wide variety of fantastic tall tales, including going to the moon and riding on cannonballs."


I don't think either should be in the article. The first is a bit biased, in my opinion, mainly due to the last sentence (which is gramatically correct, either).

As for the second piece of triva, there is no proof that the information is true, and no source was provided.

I am removing the first one, due to it being very gramatically incorrect and non-factual to a certain extent, but I'll leave the second one for now. Please discuss both.

Miles Blues 03:18, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

The thing about Munchausen seems very likely to me, considering the ship also has Newton reactors, which are obviously a reference to Isaac Newton. That the Munchausen engines, which allow space ships to travel at improbable speeds, would be named after a famous fictional character who did improbable things, seems perfectly logical and is probably true. I mean, the name Munchausen isn't exactly common, so when it's used, it typically refers to the Baron.


SRussellN 01:25, 27 June 2007

I removed the following paragraph:

"In the first episode, Melfina is introduced coming out of a suitcase type container. This is referenced and homaged in the Joss Whedon show Firefly, where River also appears in the same exact manner."

for reasons that Joss Whedon when confronted on the many similarities between Outlaw Star and Firefly, he constantly states that he has not seen either Cowboy Bebop, nor Outlaw Star. This being so, I doubt the homage/reference. I do, however, see probably too much into the similarities between the shows.

Cleanup[edit]

This user has accused me of gutting the article with my edits, by I ask the editors to consider what I did versus what this user did.

This user said I added duplicate information to the Characters section but, as I understand it, the Main template indicates the section is a summary of the Main article it links to. All I did was copy relevant information. This user duplicated information, too, and its doing was worse. As you can see, the plot section duplicates the lead section and there's a link to the episodes list when there's already one in the infobox. Hey, I copied from another article, 70.248.7.14 copied from this one.

If what I did was add info, where did the gutting happen, you ask? I cut the Trivia section, as there was nothing worth saving, and the list of ships, which was just plain silly to begin with. I also organized "Alien Races," "Planets" and the "Galactic Leyline" under a "Setting" section, which this user seems to have undone. 70.248.7.14 also uses an image of what characters look like for a few minutes in the last episode, now that's just wrong.

So, there you have it. I believe this version of the article is better than the one we now have. And, for all I know, this user might be an experienced wiki-editor who just forgot to log-in so I won't question what it did.--Nohansen 15:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

  • You removed whole sections of the articles (the plot section that also contained a link to the episodes page). You removed parts of the races sections, you removed all information about the other ships in the series among other things. You also for some reason removed the trivia section, all the external links and all the tags of the article. You also at the same time copied over information from the character pages that didn't need to be in the main article. The whole point of the characters article was to remove that stuff from the main article. If you compare the changes you gutted almost half of the article with no justification for why you did it. The whole point is if you are going to be doing such massive changes you might want to consult others in the discussion page before you just up and delete half the content of the article. That's why there is a discussion page in the first place. If others agree with your major changes, then I'll relent. Also that picture you mentioned was actually in the article for a long time. I just made a better quality version of it and since the image doesn't contain any spoilers so I see no issue with it. Also can you please explain why you felt you had to remove all the external links and the article tags? Of all the changes you made those were the most pointless.

Why was the plot section and links to the episode page removed from the article? Also why do you keep deleting tags from the article and the links and other sections? Can you actually give some reasoning for why you did that? I'm going to have to agree with the other person that your changes seem pointless and aren't necessary. When you make such major changes to an article you usually discuss it before you just up and do it.

If you read my edit summaries, you'd see I'm bringing the article up to "wiki-code".--Nohansen 01:31, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Additions[edit]

  • I added a spinoff section to the Infobox so that readers are more likely to notice that, well, there is a spinoff. The only other mention is in the Alien species section.
  • Speaking of that, this article feels more like a plot article. Where is info on VHS and DVD releases, etc? I hope some of you that really liked the series will put some more time into fleshing out this article a bit. Argel1200 04:49, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Caster shell data request[edit]

for all you fans out there, any chance you could put together the list of caster shells based on their effects? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Murakumo-Elite (talkcontribs) 17:15, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I would imagine it would be difficult, as the effects were pretty generic, and even the last 4 shells (the super powerful ones) just shot a little black ball out. Vael Victus (talk) 05:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
They never actually listed the effects of the shells. Apparently they do all have different effects but are equally powerful except for the three that Gene gets on Tenrei which are more powerful but drain the user's lifeforce. Lee M (talk) 14:53, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Well, from what I can call them based on how they work, #12 is the Electro-Shell, which can electricute the target, whether to death or not is uncertain as the only target seen taking the shell is Aisha, the Ctarl-Ctarl. #4 is the Black Hole Shell, as the user fires a black hole at the target as seen being used on Hamushi and Hazanko, with the side-effect of life drain. #9 is the Expel Shell, which expels the target by inducing a sudden pressure wave, as seen being used on Ron MacDougall, which also has the side effect of life drain. #13 is what I call the Light Shell, as the target is being attacked by a powerful white light, as seen being used on Hazanko, with the side effect of life drain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.138.70.245 (talk) 14:36, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Future Hero Next Generation[edit]

Why is there no mention of it? It's right on the logo; isn't it a prefixed subtitle? --Geopgeop (T) 16:07, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Reimagining of Treasure Island?[edit]

Um no, from everything I've ever heard it's based off a manga, which was based off another manga by the same creator that was basically a parody of most scifi and action comics. I don't see why the line shouldn't be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.207.32.133 (talk) 03:36, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I remember watching it when it was first released in the US and also checking in on the show from time to time as the years go by and never heard such a comment by the producers or creator. I have to agree with above that this is a pretty heavy claim as it changes the way the show can be percieved. I would like to see a referance to back the treasure planet claim since there is no ref. listed. For the time being I am going to remove the statement since it is not verified. RadicalDreamerz 23:03, 6 February 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by RadicalDreamerz (talkcontribs)

Article Clean-Up or Overhaul[edit]

Outlaaw Star is my favorite anime and this article is in bad shape. Is there anybody who can help clean it up? Metalb (talk) 03:57, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Un-named cactus-like race name[edit]

What is the name of the unidentified cactus-like species in the thirteenth episode of Outlaw Star? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.13.16.53 (talk) 12:30, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Speaking of races, you forgot the Nayans. Admittedly absolutely nothing is known about them, but that didn't stop the person that wrote half the stuff in this article about the aliens. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.70.113 (talk) 04:43, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Featured article or gooda rticle?[edit]

i was wondering if the article at the moment is good enough to be at featured or GA status?Bread Ninja (talk) 07:54, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Outlaw Star/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Piotrus (talk · contribs) 02:33, 29 October 2011 (UTC) GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    Seems good to this ESL.
    B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
    The article does not adhere to WP:LEAD, although only slightly - the censorship is mentioned in the lead, but not in the body (caption does not count, as captions should not contain new information). If the mentioned Arashon desert in China is ficitonal, it should be said so. The article does well with linking important terms, but seems to forget about WP:RED; this is in particular visible when most of the Japanese creators are unlinked (Kenzoh Tomita, etc.). Uchuu Eiyuu Monogatari is probably notable, too. Has the writer checked the Japanese wikipedia to see if those topics have entries that could be translated and stubbed (Google Translate is our friend...)? Also, any reason why the cat-like does not link to catgirl? Shouldn't the section entitled CDs be renamed to Music?
    Comment: I've noted the Arashon desert as fictional; red-linked the names with intent to stub; and added the catgirl wiki. I've left the CDs subsection as-is because the drama CDs are not music. I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the censorship not being mentioned in the body, as most of the first paragraph of the Anime subsection of media talks about the show's censorship in North America. ~ Hibana (talk) 15:10, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
    What I mean is that the word censorship can be controversial, and the two sentences than mention it (in the lead and in the caption) do not have a reference. If one of your other references does use the term, just add it to the anime para and all will be fine. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 16:34, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
    I've linked to all extant Japanese Wikipedia articles on the people and Uchuu Eiyuu Monogatari per H:ILL and WP:REDDEAL - hopefully this will help the stubbing process. --Malkinann (talk) 04:07, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources:
    For example, the claim about censorship is not referenced. The end of the plot section is missing a reference. There are few instances of sentences missing a reference. Nothing major, but needs a fix.
    Comment: Again, I'm not sure what mean about the claim of censorship not being referenced. See the Anime subsection. ~ Hibana (talk) 15:10, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    Seem as reliable as we can get for such popculture subject.
    C. No original research:
    I am hoping we can find a ref for the censorship. Other than than, all's fine.
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    Close, but not close enough. In the plot, the final para begins: "The incomplete Outlaw Star manga series and its concluded animated television series are paced differently than one another". Then it goes to describe the anime plot. What about the manga plot? The reader is left wanting... List of characters could be briefly summarized in its own section. Was the UK broadcast censored as well? Lastly, the article should mention the term space opera somewhere. While OS is a space western, those are a less known type of space opera, and I'd assume we should be able to find a reference for that.
    Comment: I've mentioned space opera as a genre and referenced it. ~ Hibana (talk) 15:10, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
    B. Focused:
    Certainly.
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
    No bias detected.
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
    Check.
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
    Check.
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
    Check.
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:
    Few issues to fix, but seems passable, assuming some more work is done. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 02:54, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
    Issues seem to have been fixed. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 15:25, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Tone needs a bit of work also. A few things seem to state things a little off.Bread Ninja (talk) 20:42, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
  1. I am sorry BN, but you need to be more specific. As nothing sounded strange to me, such general comments are not very actionable, either to me or the editors trying to improve the article. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 15:25, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

revert - these edits change the meaning of the sentences[edit]

To clarify my revert:

  • Changing "set in the fictional "Towards Stars Era" universe" to "set in the fictional universe called "Towards Stars Era"." makes a claim about the name of the universe that may not be substantiated in the sources.
  • Changing "Episode 23, in which the Outlaw Star crew visits a hot spring planet, was skipped entirely because of nudity and suggestive themes." to "Due to nudity and suggestive themes, a scene in Episode 23, in which the Outlaw Star crew visits a hot spring planet was skipped entirely" implies that only one scene out of episode 23 was cut - whereas the first states that the entirety of episode 23 was cut.

Thank you. :) --Malkinann (talk) 23:32, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

thats pretty subjective. for careless readers i coud see that happening, but the problem isn't within the context. it's just subjective confusion.Bread Ninja (talk) 00:13, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean? For episode 23, the source supporting the statement about the episode being skipped confirms that the entire episode was skipped, not just a scene. --Malkinann (talk) 00:16, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
then it could've been clarified instead or reverted, because both suggest only a scene was skipped. As for the first one, I'm not exactly sure what you're saying.Bread Ninja (talk) 00:21, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
In this instance, to revert was to clarify - in regards to episode 23, the first states clearly that the entire episode was skipped because of nudity and suggestive themes, whereas the second implies that only one scene out of episode 23 was skipped, perhaps shortening the episode, which was not the case. Your rewording of the fictional universe adds redundancy, and explicitly claims that the fictional universe is called Towards Star Era, which may not be the case. --Malkinann (talk) 00:30, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Not that redundant, either way, the first revert can be more direct. the first one is too vague to even use.Bread Ninja (talk) 00:33, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
I feel that describing it as "set in the fictional "Towards Stars Era" universe" is clear - although perhaps this should be wikilinked to some kind of overview article which treats what the "Towards Stars Era" universe is. Perhaps Hibana can clarify what the offline sources say about the fictional universe's name. As for "careless readers" misunderstanding, Articles in Wikipedia should be understandable to the widest possible audience. Being consise helps with this. --Malkinann (talk) 00:41, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
here's the thing, the second one can be edited even more clearer because if what you say is true. To me set in towards stars era universe gives to more status quo. I don't really see much connection. Plus i think the other was even more cosise. just not correct.Bread Ninja (talk) 00:48, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I don't understand you again.  :( What do you mean by "the second one can be edited even more clearer because if what you say is true"? What's the "status quo"? What do you mean by "the other" - your wording of the information on episode 23, or the fictional universe stuff? --Malkinann (talk) 00:53, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

The universe revert seems to be giving status quo but not really clarifying. The ep. 23 revert could be more cosise. My edit was cosise just not correct. If we're asking for cosise than we should still do some edit to these areas.Bread Ninja (talk) 00:56, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

With the fictional universe, the first has less redundancy than your edit. I doubt the information on episode 23 could be made more concise without losing meaning. I feel that perhaps seeking more clarification from WT:ANIME might be a good idea at this point, would you agree? --Malkinann (talk) 01:04, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
first clarify what "meaning" it will lose.Bread Ninja (talk) 01:08, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
It's hard to say at this juncture, before any attempt at clarifying the original sentence - but with your edit, it implied that only a scene from episode 23 was cut for the US screening, whereas in fact the entire episode was cut. --Malkinann (talk) 01:12, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
I'm aware of it now. What I'm saying is they should still need to be reworded more directly. Just need to remove the part that makes it not true. For the universe edit? These are areas where editing needs to be done to be more clear and slightly less superfluous.Bread Ninja (talk) 01:16, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Have asked for more opinions at WT:ANIME. Could you please have a go at a draft reword on the talk page to clarify these passages, so I can see what you've got in mind? --Malkinann (talk) 01:22, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

I think you're controlling the situation just a bit considering you haven't given much of a chance to find a way and asked for more opinion simply because you feel it could affect.

Anyways this is just a summarized idea but here goes "episode 23 was skipped entirely due to a scene involving the characters visiting a hot spring."Bread Ninja (talk) 01:34, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel like that - I've been trying to understand where you're coming from with your wording. By asking at the project, I'm taking things beyond just you and me - which should hopefully facilitate the discussion. I am concerned that an edit war over copyediting could affect the GA review, which was why I explained my revert on the talk page. With the hot spring episode, my understanding is that the entire episode takes place on a planet of hot springs - so it's not just a single scene where the characters visit a hot spring, it's the whole episode. I still can't think of a way that the sentence could be reworded as being more concise without losing meaning. --Malkinann (talk) 01:49, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
you understand how vague these areas are? Some form of editing to make them more clear and more direct. My edit might not have been great but SOME sort of editing has to be done. I think you can think up something. The fact that you're saying its your understanding shows the level of confusion it can bring. Same with the universe edit.Bread Ninja (talk) 13:56, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
I feel the original wording is sufficiently clear and direct. I am at a loss as to how "some sort of editing" to these phrases could be done, let alone if it "has" to be done. The only other way I can think of dealing with the information about episode 23 is to introduce a quote from the source: "Episode 23, in which the Outlaw Star crew visits a hot spring planet, was skipped entirely. Sean Akins of Cartoon Network stated that the episode "does nothing to further the story and is nothing more than an excuse to get the characters naked"." --Malkinann (talk) 14:14, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

First mention it wasn't aired instead of "skipped".Bread Ninja (talk) 14:17, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that makes sense. Done. :) --Malkinann (talk) 04:25, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Kawamori[edit]

The article on Shōji Kawamori suggests that Masaharu Kawamori may be a nom de plume. How would we go about finding this out? --Malkinann (talk) 04:02, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

US anime sales[edit]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/bandai_downsizing_ken_iyadomi_interview

Bandai Entertainment says the anime was one of their 5 top sellers ever (#1 being Cowboy Bebop). Quite a distinction. --Gwern (contribs) 22:49 3 January 2012 (GMT)

Good find! ~ Hibana (talk) 22:55, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Some problems with plot section[edit]

I removed the text claiming the manga was "incomplete" as this isn't mentioned anywhere else in the article, and wasn't substantiated by the source. The section claims the two media differ in pacing, but only describes the pacing of the anime series, which is pointless as a "comparison". The plot section really needs a lot of work to better distinguish between the manga and anime. Some guy (talk) 10:40, 31 March 2013 (UTC)