Talk:Pablo Escobar

Relatives

I bet his relatives are reading this article and thinking, "Thanks, assholes."

There's a reason why they changed their names. Perhaps if they knew that anyone would be able to read Wikipedia and find out what their new identities were, they wouldn't have even bothered.

Estimates on How Many Died by Escobar's Violence?

Are there any estimates on how many people were killed by Escobar's bombings, assassinations, and so forth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.144.60.65 (talk) 00:01, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Sources

A lot of information about Escobar can be found in the archive of Semana (http://www.semana.com). Semana is one of the most respected investigative magazines in Colombia, and their reporters chronicled the situation week after week during the war with the mafia, risking their lives in the process. Here are links to some articles (6/1561):

http://www.semana.com/wf_InfoArticulo.aspx?IdArt=41060 Bio
http://www.semana.com/wf_InfoArticulo.aspx?IdArt=79135 Death
http://www.semana.com/wf_InfoArticulo.aspx?IdArt=27765 Inside story on how the "extraditables" surrendered
http://www.semana.com/wf_InfoArticulo.aspx?IdArt=51881 The only Colombian brave enough to declare against him
http://www.semana.com/wf_InfoArticulo.aspx?IdArt=46703 Interview with the head of the Security Services at the time
http://www.semana.com/wf_InfoArticulo.aspx?IdArt=89188 Book written by "Popeye" one of Escobar's top henchmen

While the previous may be true this article is under the English wikipedia pages and the link given is of a Spanish page. This article does not give very concrete information for its sources, particularly lacking the Forbes article listing Escobar as the 7th richest man in the world in 1989. Also the statement that the Medellin cartel controlled 80% of the world's cocaine supply lacks a source. Although I think it is probably true, citations are necessary.

A good source for this statistic would be Bruce Michael Bagley's "Dateline Drug Wars: Colombia: The Wrong Strategy" from 'Foreign Policy, No. 77. (Winter, 1989-1990), pp. 154-171.' published by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. However I don't know how to properly site this source.

Some points

Moved from the comments page

Virginia Vallejo was not one of Pablo Escobar's lovers: she was a top ,M;Colombian celebrity and anchor woman of the 80s and she is now a bestselling author. The contemptuous language used to describe this media personality is discriminatory, insulting and sexist. The author of “Amando a Pablo, Odiando a Escobar” happened to be not only Escobar's lover during half a decade, but the only prominent woman in his life and his witness of choice for historic events.

Virginia Vallejo's claims on President Alvaro Uribe have been confirmed by important journalists like Joseph Contreras and Fernando Garavito, Gabriel Reyes and Daniel Coronell.

The placement of Mark Bowden's book exactly in front of a special section dedicated to Virginia Vallejo, describing the American author's work as the true story of Pablo Escobar while questioning his Colombian lover's credibility, seems intentionally designed to damage Vallejo's image. This matter is so blatantly commercial that it constitutes a violation of all of Wikipedia's standards and principles. Wikipedia was not founded to promote books and movies. -- ~~Jairo~~ 75.74.234.110 02:04, 31 May 2008

RE: "It is sometimes alleged that Escobar backed the 1985 storming of the Colombian Supreme Court by left-wing guerrillas..." Gosh I've forgotten a key detail, but at the time it was generally known in Colombia that Mr. Escobar was negotiating to pay off USD 21 billion of Colombian debt to the IMF in exchange for a set of key ministerial appointments. To foil any deal, the CIA engineered the attack on the nation's Supreme Court in a bid to sow mistrust between the negotiating parties, which it did. Thus, the assertion between quotes misleads.--Arthur Borges (talk) 07:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Total Profits

There's a large disrepency between this article and the article on the Medellin Cartel regarding the amount of money they were making / worth. The Escobar article claims they were making $30 billion annually, where as the Medellin article claims they were worth $28 billion in total. I'm more inclined to believe the latter, but don't have the time to check. Just a heads up

Sjkebab (talk) 05:08, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I heard from a Maxim or Stuff magazine...he liked to pay beauty queens to eat huge bug's for his amusement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.113.41 (talk) 08:09, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Regarding Forbes. In the beginning of the article it says "[...]and became so wealthy from the drug trade that in 1989 Forbes magazine listed him as the seventh richest man in the world." While under Height of Power it says "In 1989, at the height of his empire's power, Forbes magazine estimated Escobar to be the third-richest man in the world with a personal wealth of close to $25 billion [...]". Seventh or third? --Fiwel (talk) 16:49, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

There is an LA Times article of 1989 regarding the list. They only say that he was worth $3 billion, but it is clear that he was not on the top ten. http://articles.latimes.com/1989-07-10/business/fi-2595_1_richest-people — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.154.82.130 (talk) 23:37, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

At all events, Mr. Escobar entered into negotiations to pay off the national debt to the IMF before the 1985 assault on the Supreme Court. They were talking about USD 21 billion cash. --Arthur Borges (talk) 07:29, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

His son claims this is not true. In the documentary "Sins of my Father", he says he asked his father, Pablo, and he was told this was not true. He did not offer to pay off the national debt. The rumor started when a former President of Colombia visited him and the press speculated about it.jlcoving (talk) 21:49, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Meaning of "plata o plomo"

This phrase, allegedly Escobar's policy, refers to the two options he gave to law enforcement officers and government judges: To either take a bribe (plata = money) or to take a bullet (plomo = lead). I believe you are misinterpreting this phrase if you believe the term "plata" to mean silver. The figure of speech does not intend to be a discussion about base metals. Colombiano21 (talk) 17:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

"Plata" literally means "silver." The silver is a referance to money, where the lead is a reference to the lead in a bullet. 69.211.51.107 (talk) 01:33, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your answer. I think "plata" can be literally translated as either "silver" or "money". In this context, money seems to make more sense. I did a quick Google search and saw references in both directions. This one, specifically about the Medellin cartel, uses my interpretation. I think we will have to make a compromise, which I think is fine. Any ideas for one? Colombiano21 (talk) 03:50, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

As I said in the edit summary, the whole point of the figure of speech is that the choice is between two base metals, which are metaphors for the real meaning: if you use "money" then the cleverness of the phrase is lost. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:52, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

OK. Well, as I mentioned before, I disagree with your interpretation of the figure of speech. Colombians relate the word "plata" to money, rather than to the metal. But I don't see this discussion leading anywhere. In the meantime, an anonymous IP has edited the same phrase and its explanation. Would you agree with the current version on the page (which explains that it is Colombian 'slang')? Colombiano21 (talk) 16:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

I also found a previous discussion about this on the talk page archives: Talk:Pablo_Escobar/Archive1#silver_or_lead. Colombiano21 (talk) 16:46, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I'm aware that it's slang. Slang is often a form of wordplay, which is precisely the point here. The whole point of phrasing the thing as "plata o plomo" is because it is a figure of speech - if this were just a mundane phrase then it wouldn't be notable here at all. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 00:36, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree that in this case, plata = money. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.115.163.217 (talk) 19:47, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Death of Pablo Escobar

In regard to the shot to his ear. There was no stippling pattern visible during autopsy. Thereby refuting the claim that Escobar committed suicide. In fact, it proves he was shot from a greater distance than arms lentgh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rkgtactical (talk • contribs) 05:07, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Errors and vandalism

Hi!

There are many long-standing errors and/or vandalisms in this article. Maybe someone with knowledge and interest could fix them?

Thanks. Saintrain (talk) 21:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

gangster-terrorist not gangster and terrorist

here's another cancerous,egomaniacal,violent,mentally ill skell of a human being that will go down in history with more applause and admiration than criticism and scorn because of the gangster obsessed and mafia infatuated cultures in which we live in and around.this man wasn't a terrorist because he ordered the bombing of an airliner in mid flight or ordered hundreds of explosions throughout columbia or ordered the assassination and attempted assassinations of elected officials and police officers,he was a terrorist because first and foremost he was a lowlife gangster who provoked fear and intimidation in others through acts of violence in order to profit from that fear and intimidation.stop glorifying this type of human garbage because we all suffer because of it whether you know it or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.29.190.51 (talk) 17:41, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Like it says at the top of the page, this is one controversial man and we ought to keep a cool head. I do not find this comment cool-headed, nor do I see it removed. --Arthur Borges (talk) 07:20, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Pop Culture

Someone may wish to add that Tom Clancy's Clear and Present Danger character, Ernesto Escobedo, is based on Pablo Escobar. That book was written ages ago, but I remember reading several reviews which pointed this out back when the book came out. The character does indeed closely resemble this article. I'll not add it myself, but if anyone is interested in researching that further, feel free to do so. Also, I made some minor spelling/grammar corrections today. Feel free to change that too. :) MagnoliaSouth ^(talk) 13:56, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Who is "Sebastian"?

There is one point in the article that says, "Sebastian studied industrial design and architecture." There is no other reference, whatsoever, on Sebastian and this sentence shows up unexpectedly in what appears to be an inappropriate place. Is Sebastian a nickname or alternate name for Gustavo Escobar? I've added the clarify template. MagnoliaSouth ^(talk) 14:13, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Sebastian is his son. 46.208.42.237 (talk) 20:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Might be helpful

The History Channel is doing an in depth documentary on Pablo. Might be useful for info to add to the article. Lots42 (talk) 01:09, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

What would have Escobar become if he had not been a drug-lord

What would he have been? Would he even have been this famous?

what kind of stupid question is this? he's famous for being a criminal; of course he wouldn't have been as famous if he wasn't a drug lord —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.74.8.173 (talk) 17:22, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Narco-soccer

Any thought about adding a section about Escobar's involvement with Colombia's Athletico National soccer team? He used the team to launder drug profits and some say to even move drugs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.156.110.102 (talk) 14:47, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

was his net worth $9 billion at his height or $25 billion?...both are noted...big difference —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.160.149 (talk) 03:22, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

The photo showing the dead Escobar

The dead Escobar photo shown is ubiquitous around the World Wide Web. Yet, there is no doubt that there has been substantial editing done to the photo. Look at the roofing tiles at the bottom of the picture. Two of the tiles are identical, meaning they were copied from one portion to of the picture to another.

If some of the photo is "doctored", that leads me to question the authenticity of the entire photo.

---Tom Nally, New Orleans — Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.50.50.2 (talk) 00:16, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, is there a different picture that it can be replaced with? Meatsgains (talk) 21:50, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Issue of National debt payment

The opening paragraph of his article states; "He attempted to enter Colombian politics, even offering to pay off the nation's US $10 billion national debt". I believe it should be noted that he didn't offer to play the national debt as a ploy to get into politics. Instead, it is believed that he offered to pay off the country's debt after he fled to Panama - after his men killed Rodrigo Lara Bonilla, the then Minister of Justice, and the Colombian authorities attempted to go after him. After he was visited by former president Alfonso López, the speculation was that they'd stuck a deal; that Escobar would pay off the national debt in an exchange for not being for prosecuted for his crimes. That said, Escobar's own son, Sebastian, claims that the whole thing is a a complete myth. It is discussed around the 20 minute mark of this documentary... http://www.channel4.com/programmes/my-father-pablo-escobar/4od ...I'm not sure how the paragraph should changed, but I think the statement "even offering to pay off the nation's US $10 billion national debt" should at least be qualified.

46.208.42.237 (talk) 20:42, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

true enough, he had already won a successful entry into colombian politics long before they decided to go after him for the multiple assassinations, and it was after *that* when he offered to pay the debt. but long before that he won a seat in colombian congress. 74.102.158.68 (talk) 19:28, 1 February 2012 (UTC)