Talk:Paint It Black

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus, page not moved  Ronhjones  (Talk) 00:59, 17 April 2010 (UTC)



Paint It, BlackPaint It BlackWP:COMMONNAME PatrikR (talk) 18:31, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

  • Support - This is the name of the song. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:48, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Support. Most utterly ridiculous article name I've seen yet. This is a rock standard and the comma is just never used in the song title. Dunno how it survived this long. A quick Google confirms; Wikipedia is unusual if not unique in using the comma. Andrewa (talk) 09:58, 5 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Normally, go with what the song was titled ("Paint It, Black") but, since a bandmember disputes this title and subsequent releases haven't used it, then support per WP:UCN. (cf. Pencil Thin Mustache). — AjaxSmack 01:21, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose This is the title of the song, per the cover. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 04:56, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Strongly Oppose This is definitely the correct song title, people! Anyone familiar with the Stones' discography can tell you that! PatrikR, Beyond My Ken & Andrewa are obviously not. Utterly ridiculous indeed! Especially since the single sleeve is there for all to see (as noted by Justin (koavf) above) - an inexcusable oversight by these Supportees! (For a recent example of "Paint It, Black"'s unusual, but enduring, typography see the back cover of Forty Licks. Also Live Licks - but I couldn't find a convenient picture. Try eBay.) "Dunno how it survived this long"??!!! Do your homework! The people who wrote this article weren't stupid... And btw, COMMONNAME? Are you serious? Whatever happened to CORRECT NAME...?? This is an encyclopedia after all, not some trend-chasing social site. Wikkitywack (talk) 12:03, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
    • The concept of CORRECT NAME begs the question: Correct according to whom? That's one of the many reasons that using the common name is Wikipedia policy. Record cover art is not a good indicator of common usage, to say the least. Sure we've all seen the record conver. It's no oversight. As to being familiar with Stones discography, I've lost count of the number of versions of this song I've played live with various bands, let alone the number of other bands I've heard cover it, and I've yet to see the commma in a playlist. It's just not there! No change of vote. Andrewa (talk) 07:19, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
    • Yeah...sorry about the overreaction. But tell me: why is record cover art not a good indicator of common usage? Btw, aren't playlists notoriously unreliable when it comes to correct song titles? -Aren't they usually abbreviations of the actual song titles (like on the back cover of Dave Matthews Band Live at Red Rocks '95 - see eBay for a picture)? Wikkitywack (talk) 09:06, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The Stones' official website still uses the comma; just follow the external link in the article to verify this. ReverendWayne (talk) 15:29, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

WP:COMMONNAME is a policy - it is not decided by a local poll, but by looking at what reliable sources use.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I think you should've filed a new WP:RM rather than boldly overturned the above discussion. There was also non-trivial history and talk page discussion at Paint It Black (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). As such, I've reverted the bold move for now. –xenotalk 17:19, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure I completely follow your rationale here. You don't disagree, yet you revert because you feel process hasn't been followed? If I had read the above poll I would have closed it as move because not only are there four supports to three opposes, but also because there have been previous attempts to put this article right, and the WP:COMMONNAME policy directs us not to have a discussion first but to look at reliable sources, and the reliable sources - as I have shown above (including the Rolling Stones own website) - plus common usage (as I have shown above), plus all the sources used in the article, all indicate "Paint It Black". The move was compliant with Wikipedia:Move and WP:COMMONNAME. It is only when there is some doubt about which name to use, do we need to have a discussion. When most reliable sources, including the writer of the song, and most readers use one version, we go with that version. I'd welcome you doing some research of your own into the title, and if your findings are different to mine that would be the time to have a discussion. If you find that your findings match mine, then I would hope you'd do the right thing and move it back to "Paint It Black". SilkTork *YES! 18:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Just playing devils advocate, but COMMONNAME is only part of the article naming policy, it's not the cardinal rule.
In my opinion, another RM is required here, so I won't move it myself as you suggest.
I still think the above shouldn't be simply unilaterally overturned; however, I won't consider it wheel-warring if you re-implement your bold move (but I advise you against it). However, on a strictly procedural note, you'll need to move the redirect with non-trivial history and talk page content currently living at "Paint It Black" somewhere first (perhaps "Paint It Black (Rolling Stones song)"). –xenotalk 18:39, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Unsourced lists[edit]

Embedded lists and trivia are discouraged per Wikipedia:Embedded lists and Wikipedia:Handling trivia. Unsourced material is discouraged per Wikipedia:Verifiability. The list is moved here as it may be used by editors to refer to as the basis for constructing a sourced prose section. SilkTork *YES! 16:08, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Other versions[edit]

"Paint It Black" has been covered by many other bands and music artists, including:

References in popular culture[edit]

In recent years, the song was used in the ending credits of Full Metal Jacket and the opening credits of Tour of Duty. It was also used in 2004 in an episode-ending montage in the NBC television show American Dreams, when a major character went missing in Vietnam. In the BBC Top Gear Vietnam special, aired in December 2008 the song is played briefly after an American decorated motorbike is unveiled as a threat to the presenters.

Its other film appearances include For Love of the Game and 1997's The Devil's Advocate, played during the closing credits. The pilot of Nip/Tuck TV show also uses the Rolling Stones' version of the song. The song, as covered by Gob, was also featured in the film Stir of Echoes. The Gob cover also plays over the end credits of the 2004 mini-series of Salem's Lot. A French version of the song, recorded by Marie Laforêt, appears in both The Devil's Advocate and the 2006 film Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby, and an alternative version appears on commercials for The Sopranos on A&E.

"Paint It Black" was also used in six video game titles. Conflict: Vietnam used the song during the opening sequence, while Twisted Metal: Black used the beginning of the song in the opening screen, then the whole song again in its end credits, and inserted into level music throughout moments of gameplay. A version of the karaoke game SingStar also features "Paint It Black". The song is also featured in Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock as a playable track, with an extended ending to avoid fading out like the original did (the game makes use of the master track). However, it is unable to be played in Co-op mode, as the bass and guitar tracks could not be separated (this can be heard in single-player mode also; when one makes a mistake, both the guitar and bass cut out). It is also heard playing on some static radios in the Eve of Destruction total conversion for Battlefield 1942, Battlefield: Vietnam and Battlefield 2. In addition, it was used in the television commercial for Vietcong: Purple Haze. Karaoke Revolution Presents: American Idol Encore 2 allows players to sing it and unlock a video of it being performed on American Idol.

Isaac Brock's indie side project Ugly Casanova has referred to the song in "Barnacles".

American Idol Top 6 covered a short version of this for the Ford music video.

At 0:48 in the song "At This Hour" on the Spin Doctors' Turn It Upside Down album, they sing "You see a red door and you want to paint it black", a reference to this song.

The 1972 song "Thirteen" on the Big Star album #1 Record contains the lyrics "Won't you tell your dad to get off my back/Tell him what we said about 'Paint It Black.' "

Prior to being banned from The Howard Stern Show, Crazy Cabbie was often introduced to his own theme song, a variation of "Paint It Black", although with lyrics mocking Cabbie.

In the Stephen King series The Dark Tower, "Paint It Black" is heard by several characters as they pass the same music shop in New York at different time periods.

The Kaiser Chiefs' song "Heat Dies Down" is loosely based on the guitar riff of "Paint It Black".

In Good Charlotte's song "All Black", from their fourth album Good Morning Revival, the line "...like the Rolling Stones wanna paint it black" refers to the song.

In "The Jeep Song" by The Dresden Dolls, Track 10 on their 2003 self titled debut album, Amanda Palmer sings "I see a red jeep and I want to paint it black" in reference to the "Paint It Black" line "I see a red door and I want to paint it black".

The second chapter in Alan Moore's The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Volume III: Century is set in 1966 and titled "Paint it Black".

The song "Welcome to the Black Parade" by My Chemical Romance makes reference to it in the line "... so paint it black and take it back..."

Japanese pop star Hikaru Utada revamps the first line at the end of "Amai Wana: Paint It, Black".

Janet Fitch's 2006 novel Paint It Black is named after the song; also, the quote before the first chapter is the first four lines of the Rolling Stones song.[1]

The music website Last.FM has two skins, Simply Red and Paint It Black.

The Lee Mead version of "Paint It Black" was used by Vincent Simone & Louisa Lytton due to represent the United Kingdom at the 2008 Eurovision Dance Contest[2].

The web comic Order of the Stick, strip #635[3], is entitled, "I See a Red Robe and I Want to Paint it Black", clearly in reference to this song.

In “The Christmas Show” episode of Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, Studio 60 co-executive producer Matt Albie (Matthew Perry) is complimenting Studio 60 cast member Harriet Hayes (Sarah Paulson) on being cast as Anita Pallenberg in a new movie about the Rolling Stones. He says “…you’re great casting for that…It’s a great part. Brian, Keith, Mick Jagger – they all considered her a musical confidante. ‘Paint It Black’ was all her.”

The song was once used in a promotional campaign for the All Blacks by one of their corporate sponsors, Steinlager beer, in the late 1990s.

The song was used as the entrance song for Johny Hendricks at UFC 101.

The third book in the Sonja Blue series (Midnight Blue: The Sonja Blue Collection), by Nancy A. Collins, is titled Paint It Black.

Siobahn Magnus and Gina Gloksen sang this song on American Idol. Each performance was one of the best for the singers.

I am not positive, but I am 99% certain that this song was used in the TV series "China Beach". Anyone else remember this, or have references to it? Zargon2010 (talk) 12:10, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Paint it black written by the Rolling Stones![edit]

This was written by the Rolling Stones. Mick Jagger and Keith Richards have openly discussed it. According to the introduction James Taylor disputes it. Well James Taylor never wrote a song called 'paint it black'. He wrote a song called rainy day man, in late 1966, (not released until 1971), after Paint it Black had been released. I would correct this article, as connecting James Taylor to the song, is bordering on fantasy. Wikipedia should be more focused on facts than fiction! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.100.211.196 (talk) 09:30, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Must be another cover[edit]

The Deep Six version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toeXM4lywDQ&feature=related) must be a cover, I consider. Does anybody know it for sure? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.189.105.199 (talk) 22:03, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Eh?[edit]

"More literally, it is about using the visual trick of painting everything black in the mind's eye." Anyone care to hazard a guess what this sentence might mean? CulturalSnow (talk) 12:56, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Requested move 2[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was move per request.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:54, 23 August 2013 (UTC)


Paint It, BlackPaint It Black – Per WP:COMMANAME WP:COMMONNAME. It has already been demonstrated on this talk page, especially by SilkTork, that the form without the comma is more common among reliable sources; to those already listed above, we can add The Atlantic, the official Stones archive, and AllMusic. And while the comma may have been deliberate, it's still an error. It's quite clear from the lyrics that the title is not an exhortation to a person or thing named Black to "paint it," but about the idea of painting things black. BDD (talk) 20:22, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

  • Support. Normally, go with what the song was titled ("Paint It, Black") but, since a bandmember disputes this title, subsequent releases haven't used it, and a majority of sources eschew the comma, then go with the common name rather than the official name. (cf. Pencil Thin Mustache). —  AjaxSmack  05:39, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Key and Guitar style[edit]

Many years ago, I was in a music store, flipping through a Rolling Stones transcription book (staff music and tablature). According to this book, the song is in F minor, and is played on the acoustic with a capo on the third fret, playing as if the song were in D minor (which is much easier, from a guitarist's perspective, than F minor). I satisfied myself that this was correct when the intro, with its rapid little runs (D-E-F-G, F-E-D-E) proved much easier to play than in standard tuning, particularly the high G string that was once an E. Moreover, no guitarist with a brain in his head will play in a "guitar-unfriendly" key like F minor, when a capo (or a retuning) will make it easier, and allow for ringing open strings here and there. So, I believe it, but the only source I actually have a copy of, the Hot Rocks 1964-1971 "Piano/Vocal/Chords" book, only confirms that the song is in F minor, and doesn't mention the capo at all. And the book in general is a piece of shit full of errors, though "Paint It Black" seems to have escaped such a fate. Can any of this go in the article? I'm not going to waste the effort of an edit AND a reference just to establish the song's key. If I can add the bit about the capo, however, I'd be happy to, because it's so very, obviously true. I have a feeling this would be considered Original Research.

--Ben Culture (talk) 23:20, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

  1. ^ "Books by Janet Fitch". Literati.net. Retrieved 2010-03-17. 
  2. ^ "Vincent Simone & Louisa Lytton - Paint It Black - United Kingdom 2008 | Eurovision Dance Contest - Glasgow 2008". Eurovisiondance.tv. Retrieved 2010-03-17. 
  3. ^ "Giant In the Playground Games". Giantitp.com. Retrieved 2010-03-17.