Talk:Palestinian expulsion from Kuwait

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Rename[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure). Callanecc (talkcontribslogs) 12:26, 4 June 2013 (UTC)



Palestinian expulsion from Kuwait1991 Palestinian exodus from Kuwait – I suggest to rename this to "1991 Palestinian exodus from Kuwait", because Palestinian expulsion can be interpreted both as expulsion of Palestinians and mistakenly as expulsion by Palestinians. Please vote support or oppose.Greyshark09 (talk) 19:21, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

  • Comment. Can you give an example of this ambiguity you refer to above? I don't see that 'expulsion from' can be mistaken as to subject given a normal understanding of English. It can only mean the expulsion of Palestinians, not expulsion by Palestinians. To call it an 'exodus' however will then add the implication that it was voluntary, something that was probably not the case for most of the Palestinians involved. Imc (talk) 20:20, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
"Exodus" is not strictly voluntary, see 1948 Palestinian exodus. "Exodus" however is a more NPOV concept.Greyshark09 (talk) 17:28, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose: Expulsion (or some variant) is the more accurate term and is the one most commonly used by the sources. -- Mrmatiko (talk) 20:55, 27 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose I don't see how the title could be interpreted as expulsion by Palestinians, that doesn't really make sense. I guess "exodus" and "expulsion" could be interchangeable, but as of yet I don't see a prevalence of scholarly or journalistic sources describing it as "exodus" instead of "expulsion," although I have seen a few where both terms are used. --Al Ameer son (talk) 05:08, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose The current title is clear and describes the event accurately. Imc (talk) 19:18, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Exodus not an expulsion[edit]

It was an exodus rather than an expulsion. Half of Kuwait's 400,000 Palestinian population voluntarily fled Kuwait during the Gulf War due to harassment and intimidation by Iraqi soldiers, in addition to getting fired from work by Iraqi authority authorities. Thus 200,000 of the initial 400,0000 voluntarily fled and the remaining 200,0000 in Kuwait after the Gulf War were not expelled per se. Some of the 200,000 were deported, however the majority were pressured to leave due to economic burdens (such as, dismissal from work, the withdrawal of free education, free health care, subsidies and other benefits such - landowners raising rents for Palestinians).

Many sources identify it was an exodus, examples:

  • Eyal Benvenisti, Chaim Gans, Sari Hanafi (2007). "Israel and the Palestinian Refugees". p. 29. "The third case concerned the exodus of 350,000 of Palestinians from Kuwait and other Gulf States, most of whom went to Jordan." 
  • Nicholas Van Hear (1998). "New Diasphoras". p. 86. "The mass exodus of Palestinians from Kuwait" 

There was a great exodus of Palestinians from Kuwait during July and August, partly attributable to fear of abusive actions by the Kuwaiti security forces, but also brought about by economic necessity.

  • "Mistrusting Refugees". p. 99. "As a result of that campaign, the Palestinian community in Kuwait was reduced within a few months from four hundred thousand to less than fifty thousand. The harrowing narrative of the survivors of this new exodus," 
  • "To Rule Jerusalem". 2000. p. 411. "The postwar grafitti in Kuwait - "Amman, 1970; Beirut, 1982; Kuwait City, 1992" - foretold yet another Palestinian exodus." 

Insomniaingest 21:33, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Revert of unilateral rename[edit]

I've reverted the second rename of this article to 'Palestinian exodus ...', both of which occurred after and contrary to the rename discussion at the top of the page, and without further discussion here. Imc (talk) 21:11, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Look at the section above you, 'Exodus not an expulsion'. The rename discussion at the top of the page can't be modified since it's closed, I couldn't contribute anything to it. Insomniaingest 21:11, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
That's how it works, discussions have to end at some point if the intent is to make and act on decision. If you want to argue against it, you can raise another discussion at WP:RM. You can refer to your post above. Imc (talk)

Requested rename[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page not moved: no support other than nominator Ground Zero | t 01:22, 9 September 2014 (UTC)



Palestinian expulsion from KuwaitPalestinian exodus from Kuwait – The title is misleading, 400,000 Palestinians were not expelled from Kuwait. During the Gulf War, half of Kuwait's 400,000 Palestinian population voluntarily fled Kuwait, partly due to harassment and intimidation by Iraqi soldiers. 200,000 of the initial 400,0000 voluntarily fled and the remaining 200,0000 after the Gulf War were not expelled per se. Following the Gulf War, some Palestinians were deported, while many others fled Kuwait due to economic burdens (such as, dismissal from work, withdrawal of free education and free health care, reduction in subsidies and other benefits - landowners raising rents for Palestinians).

Wikipedia is supposed to maintain a policy of neutrality. Most sources identify the event as an exodus:

  • "The Palestinian Diaspora". p. 67. "Regulations on residence were considerably tightened and the general environment of insecurity triggered a continuous Palestinian exodus." 
  • "Mistrusting Refugees". p. 99. "As a result of that campaign, the Palestinian community in Kuwait was reduced within a few months from four hundred thousand to less than fifty thousand. The harrowing narrative of the survivors of this new exodus," 
  • "To Rule Jerusalem". 2000. p. 411. "The postwar grafitti in Kuwait - "Amman, 1970; Beirut, 1982; Kuwait City, 1992" - foretold yet another Palestinian exodus." 

--- Insomniaingest 23:55, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

  • Oppose - First look at the numbers. Web search expulsion 9900 hits, exodus only 600 hits. And in book search "expulsion+of+palestinians+from+kuwait"&tbm=bk expulsion 66 hits compared with exodus 36 hits. Second, you provide a long list of usage of 'exodus' to make your case but you have provided no opposing list for comparison, even though it looks as if it will be easier to get the numbers for it. Finally, your lead text seems to be self contradictory to me; it seems you describe many forms of compulsion as voluntary, e.g. half of Kuwait's 400,000 Palestinian population voluntarily fled Kuwait due to harassment and intimidation is pretty much self-contradictory. Imc (talk) 19:56, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
A Google web search is not a reliable indicator since many search items are from blogs and forums. Wikipedia is supposed to maintain a policy of neutrality. Iraqi soldiers harassed and intimidated some Palestinians in order to pressure them into supporting Sadddam Hussein. According to the source, 200,000 Palestinians fled Kuwait during the Iraqi occupation due to various reasons (food shortages, medical care difficulties, financial shortages, dismissal from work, fear of arrest and mistreatment at roadblocks by Iraqi soldiers). Iraqi soldiers didn't expel 200,000 Palestinians during Kuwait's occupation. Insomniaingest (talk) 19:45, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
Agreed that google web search is not reliable for many things. That is why I provided the book search results as well, which also show many more hits for expulsion over exodus. The web search is however reliable enough to indicate general usage in Englsh, which is why I included it. Imc (talk) 16:55, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose per Imc's argument on usage, and because "exodus" is a very loaded term itself so it'll do nothing to make the article more neutral. I expect we'll get people complaining about it, especially since it'd suggest Palestinians were originally from Kuwait or some nonsense like that. True, not all Palestinians were deported, but they did not leave Kuwait voluntarily (as Imc pointed out), and it makes perfect sense to use the term used by the press at the time and in academic books since. —innotata 23:06, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.