Talk:Palo verde

Comparison value[edit]

For field usage it is more convenient to have all species of palo verde in the same article so they can be compared. Jclerman 13:45, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Arizona State Tree[edit]

Please don't mix it up again. The State document referenced clearly refers to the blue palo verde as the AZ State Tree, as the original Wikipedia article did, correctly. Jclerman 13:45, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This page http://www.50states.com/tree/arizona.htm refers the Arizona State Tree to P. microphylla - MPF 16:17, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That is a commercial site, not the official site of the State of Arizona whre you can find the defining PDF document I referred to in the article. Jclerman 16:52, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks; I'll change the reference on the relevant pages. But that doesn't mean that it is necessary to duplicate all the species info on this page - MPF 17:00, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would like a short description that allows users to walk around botanical gardens, nurseries, alleys (yes, they grow like weeds here in Tucson, AZ), etc. So the local people who don't know the taxonomical names could find a concise page for our palo verdes. The Landscape Plants for the Arizona Desert, by the AZ Municipal Water Users Assoc. (admitedly not a botanical publication), lists only three: C. floridum, C. microphyllum, and Cercidium hybrid, horticultural selection. I suspect this is a hybrid of the other two. I guess that there might be other hybrids. By the way, the manual I am referring to spells Foothills [sic] the common name of C. microphyllum. There migth be a copy online on a site that I have not visited yet. Jclerman 17:23, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can see there's good reason to have any cultural and symbolic details that apply to all the species named 'palo verde' on this page, but I think the species description details should be on the individual species pages (with links from here as well as the Parkinsonia genus page), not here. Three of the species have their own pages now, I can do pages for the others (P. texana etc) fairly soon. - MPF 18:32, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The amwua.org site's xeriscape info shows also C. praecox (Palo Brea or Sonora Palo Verde) as of local importance. Jclerman 21:44, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Synonymia[edit]

Again, for field usage, in particular by the local AZ population mention always both synonymous classifications: Cercidium spp. and Parkinsonia spp. Jclerman 13:45, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cercidium[edit]

I think this article should be moved to Cercidium (which currently redirects to Parkinsonia. Although the term palo verde in the United States refers to Cercidium and to some non-native species still retained in Parkinsonia, many different plants are called palos verdes in Spanish-speaking areas around the world, and I suspect many of those have been assimilated as common names in English. Palo verde could become a disambiguation page leading to Cercidium, Parkinsonia, and perhaps other genera as necessary (as well as to the town and power plant)..--Curtis Clark 14:41, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OOPS, I only meant the SW USA palo verdes... And I like to have the few local ones on a comparative page. So do people going to buy trees from the local botanical garden nurseries. That was the power of the original Palo verde page except that it had only two species. Jclerman 16:59, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, there are articles about the two species listed here under their Parkinsonia names, as well.--Curtis Clark 14:41, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

These were split from the palo verde article, after today edits by MPF. Jclerman 16:55, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The USDA treats Cercidium as a synonym of Parkinsonia. I can see no reason for maintaining a separate page for Cercidium, nor for Palo verde other than as a disambig page. - MPF 16:22, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In paleoclimate reconstructions we still use Cercidium, not Parkinsonia, thus a palynologist would search for Cercidium. Jclerman 16:55, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hence Cercidium being a redirect to Parkinsonia, where the synonymy is listed - MPF 17:00, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cercidium floridum and Cercidium microphyllum already redirect to the respective Parkinsonia species. I think the next step is to turn this into a disambiguation page, and move any info not already in the Parkinsonia articles. I'd do it myself, but I'm swamped today, and away from a computer tomorrow through Monday. If it remains to be done on Tuesday, I'll take care of it.--Curtis Clark 19:15, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--Curtis Clark 01:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, I made the redirects when I did the species pages ;-) MPF 19:46, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

State tree revisited[edit]

Absolutely confusing and illiterate sources. I copied and pasted from the Arizona Revised Statutes online. Notice the broad statement including the use of the term "genera"[sic] in #41-856, the article establishing the Arizona state tree. The other statal items are not bettter described either:

<<

A.R.S. 41-853. State fossil

Petrified wood, or araucarioxylon arizonicum, is the official state fossil.

A.R.S. 41-854. State bird

The cactus wren, otherwise known as Coues' cactus wren or heleodytes brunneicapillus couesi (Sharpe) shall be the state bird.

A.R.S. 41-855. State flower

The pure white waxy flower of the cereus giganteus (giant cactus) or Saguaro shall be the state flower.

A.R.S. 41-856. State tree

The Palo Verde (genera cercidium) shall be the state tree.

A.R.S. 41-857. State neckwear

The Bola tie shall be the official state neckwear.

A.R.S. 41-858. State gemstone

Turquoise is the official state gemstone.

A.R.S. 41-859. State animals

The ringtail or bassariscus astutus, the Arizona ridgenose rattlesnake or crotalus willardi, the Arizona trout or salmo apache and the Arizona tree frog or hyla eximia shall be known respectively as the state mammal, reptile, fish and amphibian.

A.R.S. 41-860. State butterfly

A. The papilionidae papilio multicaudata, two-tailed swallowtail is the official state butterfly.

B. Designation of the state butterfly pursuant to this section shall not constitute grounds for protection of the butterfly or its habitat.

>>

Jclerman 21:37, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ye Gods! They must be using some archaic 19th century source for their scientific names!

Cactus Wren - now Campylorhynchus brunneicapillus

Saguaro - now Carnegiea gigantea

Arizona trout - now Oncorhynchus apache

I'd guess it is reasonable that they would make the Palo Verde specification a generic one, rather than an individual species; quite a few other national and state icons are, as most people wouldn't know the difference between the species. - MPF 22:05, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I copied the whole list precisely for your amusement. They revise the statutes each year, updating and correcting them... From the typography they must be using a mechanical typewriter from the 1950s, without italics (no, worse, they never heard of taxonomic conventions). And all done with our tax money. Aargh...

Then, they publish a PDF doc specifying only one species...

Jclerman 22:31, 18 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]