Talk:Pančić's Peak

Notability

Scored only 100 hits on google. Dengero (talk) 09:13, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

• But, You should try "Pančićev vrh"! Vanjagenije (talk) 22:57, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Military Base on top

• [1]
• [2]
• [3]

What do you see on these pictures? CrniBombarder!!! (†) 04:17, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Central Serbia or Kosovo

Pančić's Peak is obviously located in Central Serbia, and not in Kosovo as anyone can see at google maps or google earth (see [4]). So, please, stop writing that it is in Kosovo.Vanjagenije (talk) 22:25, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• Actually, it appears to be on the border. The coordinates given in the Pančić's Peak article, 43°16′9″N 20°49′21″E, seem to be in Kosovo, rather than Central Serbia, but that point was not at the height of land. I looked at the map at footnote one (suggested above), and that point was not at the height of land. It appears that the height of land is 6548 ft. (on Google Earth), said to be 6617 ft/2017 m at "Nis, Sheet NK 34-2" U.S. Army Map Service, Corps of Engineers 1959, and the height of land is at 43°16′08.27″N 20°49′28.37″E, which is right on the border, which makes sense if the border was set at the height of land. Lonely Planet Eastern Europe Chapter on Serbia indicates that the ski resort is in Serbia, and that the peak overlooks Kosovo. I've looked at several maps and Pančić's Peak (Milanov Vrh) appears to be the tripoint where the municipalities of Raška, Brus, and Leposavić meet. --Bejnar (talk) 20:50, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

• The exact peak is the point where Pančić's mausoleum is located. It was intentionally built exactly on the peak. The mausoleum is clearly visible on Google Maps at [5]. Vanjagenije 11:33, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

• Yes, it is mausoleum that is marker. It seams that cord is wrong, but i will fix it... :) --WhiteWriter ^speaks 15:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

• It is true that there are two small buildings at [6]; however, the top of the hill (mountain) is here where, when you zoom in, you can clearly see not only the mausoleum, but also the radio tower and that it is above the road and the rocks and grass match the picture in the article. Also, you haven't addressed the issue of the height-of-land as the defining characteristic of the border. The mausoleum here is on the height-of-land and the border. You can also see these features at Google Earth at 43°16′09.26″N 20°49′21.02″E. --Bejnar (talk) 19:10, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

• Now, I have to say that I'm confused. We should determinate which of these buildings is the mausoleum. By the way, how do you check the altitude on google maps? Vanjagenije 18:28, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Check altitude with Google Earth, requires download and install. Altitude is displayed in the lower right. Google Earth's altitudes are relative, not absolute. Take a look at the mausoleum next time you are there, the location of the road and how the rocks outcrop there at the top. Or you can compare with the picture now on display in the article. People have placed several markers for Pančić's Peak on both Google Earth and Google Maps which are all in the general area, but which are all off just a bit from the actual point. --Bejnar (talk) 05:48, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I`m little mixed up,about what are we talking here exactly.

Highest point (not peak) is 2017 metters above sea level and on that spot is mausoleum.Highest peak,is Pančićs peak,which is adjecent to Suvo Rudište peak (1976),on which most of the ski lifts ends (As you can see on this picture).

According to my recolection,mausoleum is this object on GoogleEarth 43°16′9″N 20°49′21″E (which can be easily confirmed,by looking at this picture (you can see army bus on the road which goes around the highest point)).Also,according to GoogleEarth,height of that point is 1986,so we`re back at the beginning.(I faced a similar problem in other part of Kopaonik,where Google Earth shows very different height then real.)

You (Bejnar) said you look at several maps and the highest point represents tripoint of those municipalities (which is logical,if those municipal borders meet there).Which maps are those,since on Yugoslav military maps those thing aren`t marked.

Anyway,I`m still missing the point of this talking. CrniBombarder!!! (†) 13:05, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

The point of this talking is whether the Pancic peak is located in Central Serbia or Kosovo, or on the border between two. Vanjagenije (talk) 20:10, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that the highest point is not Pančić's Peak? --Bejnar (talk) 22:23, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

No,no,Pančić's Peak is the highest peak on Kopaonik mountain.Maybe I made some badly understandable statements above. CrniBombarder!!! (†) 12:08, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I am including this in the Kosovo project and we need to add the albanian names for reference. thanks James Michael DuPont (talk) 06:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Merge?

Not directly relevant to the section topic, but why don't we simply merge this into Kopaonik article, which isn't particularly long anyway? OK, it's a relatively well known peak, but it's just a peak with a few buildings on top. The article cannot grow significantly beyond the current point, because there isn't too much to be written about it, no? It isn't really Mount Blanc or K2. Why having an eternal stub? No such user (talk) 06:43, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually, article can grow, as none of its history is written, and none of its problems during 1999 war. Also, there is impšortant memorial on the top of this peak. I reject the merge. --WhiteWriter ^speaks 15:33, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Yes,article can grove.It could be expanded in history section,but also it could be written about late roman and early byzantine church,just beneath it (article on sr.wiki) and natural rarites,since part of the peak is protected as part of Kopaonik national park ([7]).It could be written about Krčmar (Tavern waiter) spring,beneath it,which is a glacial relict and represent one of the most (naturaly) radioactive spring in Serbia and also is origin of the Toplica river. CrniBombarder!!! (†) 13:05, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough. Withdrawing. No such user (talk) 13:52, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Maja Pançiq

Is "Maja Pançiq" the correct name for Pančić's Peak in Albanian? If so, and the peak is relevant enough to Albanian speakers that it is considered notable by them, https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sq/wiki/Maja_Pan%C3%A7iq it belongs in the article. Whether Albanian is an official language in Central Serbia, or whether the peak is in Kosovo or not is irrelevant. The question is whether our article serves the reader, who is looking for "Maja Pançiq". Fred Talk 15:23, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

But it doesn't matter, if you insist, you may enter it, but this peak have absolutely "zero" notability for Albanian speakers! It is located in Serbia, on its top is memorial of Serbian botanist Josif Pančić, and earlier it was named after Serbian king Milan Obrenović. It is only relevant for Serbia, and Serbs, in international meaning. By that logic, we should add multiple multilingual names to tons of articles, as they may be related to some other speakers. Also, as redirect exist, dont worry about readers who search for Maja Pançiq. They will find it, even without that other names. Also, that is the reason we have redirects here! :) Thanks anyway, but just imagine how it would be that we add all related names? That would be mess! All best! --WhiteWriter ^speaks 15:45, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

We do insist. We are not involved in the Serbian-Kosovo dispute. If there is an English term in common use that should be the title with references in the introduction to the name as expressed in all local languages. If there is no English term in common use either Serbian or Albanian may be used, which will depend on more subtle matters. In this case the physical location and the memorial seem to make Serbian an appropriate choice. Fred Talk 19:01, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

All related names? Albanian is a relevant language in southern Serbia if I may point out. If we look at south Serbia according to the Serbian claim to Kosovo, then you would also have to admit that there are very many Albanian speakers running around inside of Serbia. It does not matter if Albanian is a official language at all for the WP, WP is not a soapbox for the Serbian or any other government. We are trying to collect facts for scholars, to compile information that is relevant. The Albanian names of places in Serbia where Albanian people live are relevant if you like it or not. This peak is a relevant border point for Kosovo, and the mountain is half in Kosovo, it does not matter what status Kosovo has, if it is a province, a state or whatever, the border is still there, even if a local border according to some viewpoints. I think that it is relevant and according to a NPOV we should add it. I really don't care about this matter, but it seems that the discussion is not neutral. I have seen many examples of Albanian names being removed, and I wish it would stop. Thanks, Mike James Michael DuPont (talk) 16:53, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Sources are not Neutral|Primary Sources

Sorry but http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org does not seem to me to be a secondary source, please use english language secondary sources and please include translations of the serbian sources here in talk for review. WP:RSUE thanks, mike James Michael DuPont (talk) 08:59, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

We already have other sourced the primary ones. Also in WP:RSUE, translation is needed ONLY WHEN QUOTING A SOURCE. And not in regular reference usage. So please, stop asking for translation everywhere. Please, understand guideline first, before cite it in discussions. --WhiteWriter ^speaks 09:44, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

We already have three sources for the simple statement that the peak was bombed. Including a link to website slobodan-milosevic.org, containing a transcript of trial in absentia to NATO leaders in a Belgrade court is... embarrassing, to put it mildly. No such user (talk) 08:03, 3 December 2010 (UTC)