Talk:Patrick Marleau

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Untitled[edit]

A few days ago, during a Fox Sports Bay Area TV broadcast of a Sharks game (I forget which game), Marleau himself talked about his "home town" of Aneroid. I'm not sure where his actual birth place was, but I changed that sentence to clarify that his home town is Aneroid, and added a "citation needed" for the Swift Current reference, as I personally have never heard the town associated with him other than in this article. However, his stated birthplace at the beginning of the article was Aneroid, so I changed that to Swift current because it is inconsistent with aforementioned birthplace reference, and I'm giving the author the benefit of the doubt.

Also, I added an update about his progress during the current NHL season.PrinceYumil 11:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Why was the trade rumor deleted that I posted? It is a true rumor.Naps90 20:51, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Patrick Marlowe —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kozy (talkcontribs) 14:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Gaining consensus on his b-day[edit]

His birthplace according to hundreds of reliable sources like TSN, ESPN, NHL, Yahoo, etc. all say his birthplace is Aneroid. Regardless of what may be true or not, wikipedia goes by what the sources say under Wikipedia:Verifiability. There is one source that says that versus 20 others I can name that says Aneroid.--Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 05:41, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Here are sources that say Aneroid. (You are free to add more).

NHL, TheHockeyNews, HockeyDraft.ca, ESPN, CBS, CTV, Sportsnet
HHoF, TSN--Львівське (talk) 06:12, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

I found one real source for Swift Current the rest were all mirrors of wikipedia. (you are free to add more)

Olympics.ca
NHLPA --Львівське (talk) 06:10, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
  • I know this is just a blog, but the guy seems to know the subject well and nails it: "It made me think back to a Patrick Marleau story when I was living in Swift Current. I should state that Marleau is from a small community about an hour from Swift Current called Aneriod."source --Львівське (talk) 06:18, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Support (for Aneroid)[edit]

support: I think the abundance of sources + the blog posting should make this argument incredibly clear at this point.--Львівське (talk) 06:20, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
comment: I don't see how the blog makes his birthplace clear, to me it refers to his hometown, not the place of birth. he knows his WHL stuff (referring to the blog), but that is hardly a concrete response about birthplace. Canada Hky (talk) 03:10, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
True, and the only interview so far I've found has him stating his hometown is Aneroid / he grew up on a farm (link)--Львівське (talk) 03:22, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Oppose (for Swift Current)[edit]

Comments[edit]

  • Comment I think the reason you see both in some sources is that Aneroid does not have a hospital, so he would have been born in Swift Current. Yet his family was living in Aneroid. This has happened for other players in other locations in the past. Sometmes websites mix up hometown with birthplace in their listings. -DJSasso (talk) 13:36, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
    Personally I would lend more weight to the NHLPA site than any of the others because it uses information that would have been provided by Marleau himself as opposed to just replicating what was in other sources like the other websites would have done. -DJSasso (talk) 13:42, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
    Bear in mind the NHLPA website states "hometown" and not "birthplace"--Львівське (talk) 16:30, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Also, you don't need a hospital to have a baby. Plus the fact that Aneroid is 73km away from Swift Current makes that point invalid. Since it'll take at least an hour to make it from home to Swift Current.--Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 20:58, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
Not to mention, assuming he was born in a hospital in a nearby city is guesswork on our part. Nobody from Aneroid has ever been born in Aneroid? --Львівське (talk) 22:00, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
It is extremely rare these days to not have a baby in a hospital (even back when he was born) And in rural saskatchewan, yes it is very common to travel 73 KM to go to the hospital for a birth. Some even travel further. I think the logical solution would be to do what is done on many places is to put that his hometown is Aneroid and that sources differ on his actual place of birth between Aneroid and Swift Current. Though knowning what I know of Saskatchewan I find it highly unlikely he was born in Aneroid. -DJSasso (talk) 12:25, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Why don't we have a hometown field in the infobox, anyway?--Львівське (talk) 17:45, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Because for 90% of players birthplace is hometown. And hometown can be very very subjective. Seen debates on it in the past for biographies (not necessarily hockey players). For example some people consider your hometown where you were born no matter what since hometown means where you came from. Others have a more general view of what a hometown is, ie where you grew up. Others equate it to where you spend the most time in your life. -DJSasso (talk) 19:37, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
Yes, but it could be an optional field for the 10% of cases where there needs disambiguation, like John Tavares or any number of players born abroad but raised in Canada, etc.--Львівське (talk) 19:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
But that doesn't solve the problem of what a hometown is. To me (and many others) your hometown is where you were born. Others it is where you are raised. You would end up having nothing but arguements like this one on every page because one persons hometown is not another persons hometown. Hometown is not quantifiable. -DJSasso (talk) 19:44, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment I would think logically that it is highly unlikely that he was born in Aneroid - yes there are home births, but they are becoming increasingly uncommon, most babies are born in hospitals. The old birthplace / hometown distinction rears its head here. Short of an interview with his parents or himself, we are unlikely to get a solid answer. Canada Hky (talk) 03:08, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Marleau's birthplace[edit]

Since the above discussion is mis-titled and hasn't reached any conclusion, I have started this section and will attempt to refocus the discussion.

1) Until we reach a consensus I suggest that we leave the birthplace as "Swift Current", as it was the last stable version.

2) Some sources say Swift Current, some say Aneroid. When there are conflicting sources, the quality of the sources should be considered. I believe the birthplace information on the Canadian Olympic Committee site (which indicates Swift Current) to be the highest quality. The COC would have verified Marleau's birth certificate, passport etc. when confirming that he is eligible to represent Canada. ESPN, Sportsnet etc. would not have access to these documents.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 18:45, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

The NHL, TSN, and the HHoF all trump the olympics website in terms of reliability.--Львівське (talk) 19:01, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
I don't know they they necessarly do, since as he mentioned the Olympic Committee would have had to verify those things to make sure he was elligable to play. With the exception of maybe the NHL site, none of the others would have done that and just gone on press releases etc. -DJSasso (talk) 19:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
I dunno, this is just a small informationless bio on the COC page, I wouldn't say it's any more reliable than ESPN.com or other slapped together bios. At least NHL.com and HHOF are legit hockey-exclusive content providers.--Львівське (talk) 01:14, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
I do not agree that being "hockey-exclusive" makes a source more reliable. The Canadian Olympic Committee would have put greater effort into scrutinizing Marleau's birthplace and therefore is a more reliable source for this information.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 01:37, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Actually, the COC would have put less effort in, since it's just a bio tacked on during the Olympics. It's not like the COC itself reviewed the bio, it was just some webmaster on a deadline slapping things together. The NHL and HHOF on the other hand deals exclusively with hockey players and the NHL in particular has a great database of official information.--Львівське (talk) 01:42, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
The COC verifies athletes citizenship by reviewing documents like birth certificates and passports to ensure that the athletes are eligible to represent Canada. This is a higher level of scrutiny. Why do you consider the NHL database to be "great"?--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 01:50, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
I highly doubt that the COC's website checked Marleau's birth certificate for his bio snippet.--Львівське (talk) 02:39, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Why would the birth place on the the COC web site be different from what they received from the athletes and verified?--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 03:03, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
I highly doubt the COC reviews birth certificates as they represent the athletes like the NHLPA. Hockey Canada is the one that is concerned with this, since they pick and have to verify everyone eligibility.Hockey Canada's website only says hometown and it says Aneroid which doesn't really mean anything since it says hometown.--Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 11:13, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Even if the sports federations (like Hockey Canada) verify citizenship documents and not the COC, wouldn't the federations pass on that information to the COC for accreditation of the athletes? It's not really relevant, but the COC is not an athlete's association like the NHLPA.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 19:33, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
Wouldn't the team that drafted him know his birthplace and employer as they most likely have a copy of his birth certificate.. IE the sharks which says Aneroid. Remember the NHL looks at ALL birth certificates of players that enter the draft. So why would the NHL have a wrong b-day. The COC is not concerned with how players get chosen. They are concerned with how much they get paid, travel costs, and setting everything up. Just like the IOC. That is also why I said it's like the NHLPA.--Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 03:56, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
One more thing. I think you have an Bia's in this. The COC wasn't even a source of yours yet before you supported Swift Current before you even new it was a source. You supported the NHLPA, which said hometown.--Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 04:00, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
I don't understand what you are accusing me of. Can you please explain?--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 08:28, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
I'm not accusing you of anything what I said is I think you are unconditionally supporting Swift Current when there was no real source for it. You have been reverting any change from it for the past year. You also adding the one source: the NHLPA. Which said hometown while many others clearly said birthplace and there was really no source that said birthplace Swift Current. The only real one that came out was the COC which only had a page for him for the past couple of months since it was his fist olympics. I have yet to find another source that says Swift Current that isn't a mirror of wikipedia beside the COC.--Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 09:13, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
The NHLPA site did indicate that his birthplace was Swift Current. The site has changed and now lists hometowns instead of birthplaces.--SaskatchewanSenator (talk) 18:39, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Okay one more thing. I'm changing the birthplace to see section below and noting that different sources say different things until we reach consensus. This way the reader also knows that different sources say different things.--Everyone Dies In the End (talk) 04:03, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

By the way, the official website of the Sharks spells Aneroid as his birthplace. As this site is managed by people close to the franchise and is meant to have reliable information (especially by players themselves or official sources, as well as nhl.com), I would say Aneroid should be picked. Let's say, if there were a mistake or an ambiguity, the club would know, and Patrick Marleau among others would surely mention it to make it right. Mianreg (talk) 19:18, 7 May 2011 (UTC)