Talk:Paul the Apostle

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"Views on homosexuality" section[edit]

The section contains a reference to 1 Timothy, which if it is going to be included there needs to be clarified that almost no scholars think Paul actually wrote 1 Timothy. Some editors keep taking that referenced information out, please do not remove it unless the reference to 1 Timothy is also removed.Smeat75 (talk) 18:43, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

edit request (minor)[edit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paul_the_Apostle&diff=608158438&oldid=608002981

I think the old version (with just "Paul" in the name field) is more fitting than the current version. "St Paul the Apostle" seems kinda redundant since it's followed directly by "Apostle".

166.205.68.48 (talk) 01:02, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Mz7 (talk) 03:17, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:No original research[edit]

Wikipedia:No original research This is original research, sorry. Wikipedia does not encourage original research. This skips the fact that Paulus was a person who lived after the Pharisees rules, but then he got converted by this vision.Hafspajen (talk) 02:07, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


  • According to Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary, the name "Paulus" means "Least" in Latin. This gives an explanation why the jail of the arrogant in Hell is named "Paulus/بولس" according to the Hadith.

Paul's name is also mentioned in several Islamic hadiths of the Shia sect of Islam as the deceiver of the Christians, and along with people like Cain, Nimrod, Fir'aun and Samiri, is punished in a stage of Hell called Saqar. Another hadith mentions demons that mislead people after prophets, and names Paul as the demon that misled people after Jesus.[1][2]

Moreover, Matthew 16:6-12 & Mark 8:15 tell that Jesus warned his disciples of the Pharisees & the teachings of the Pharisees: *Matthew 16:6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast (Paul was actually the yeast of the Pauline Christianity) of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” *Matthew 16:12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees. *Mark 8:15 “Be careful,” Jesus warned them. “Watch out for the yeast of the Pharisees and that of Herod.”

Paul himself said about himself:
"I am a Pharisee, the son of Pharisees."

—Acts 23:6

"For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?"

—said Paul, Romans 3:7

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
— said Jesus, according to Matthew 23

We just stick to the previous version. Hafspajen (talk) 02:07, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Updates[edit]

  • Added {{Old moves}} showing previous page names and requested moves.
  • Updated archiving. Inactive threads older than 90 days will be archived.
    —Telpardec  TALK  06:09, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Name.[edit]

Saul of Tarsus. [1]. Also, שאול התרסי, Bauer lexicon, "The New Testament of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ: According to the Received Greek Text" (University Press, Cambridge 1876). And he was NOT one of the twelve, but he was counted as one of them anyway. Hafspajen (talk) 04:04, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Paul under house arrest in Rome for 2 years? Says who?[edit]

The article claims that:

He arrived in Rome c. 60 and spent another two years under house arrest (beyond his two years in prison in Caesarea).[18][Acts 28:16]

However, Acts 28:16 (ESV) only refers to a guard being with Paul on his arrival to Rome:

And when we came into Rome, Paul was allowed to stay by himself, with the soldier who guarded him.

Subsequently, Acts 28:17-20 tells this:

After three days he called together the local leaders of the Jews, and when they had gathered, he said to them, “Brothers, though I had done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans. When they had examined me, they wished to set me at liberty, because there was no reason for the death penalty in my case. But because the Jews objected, I was compelled to appeal to Caesar - though I had no charge to bring against my nation. For this reason, therefore, I have asked to see you and speak with you, since it is because of the hope of Israel that I am wearing this chain.”

After this declaration, Acts 28:30-31 ends with:

He lived there two whole years at his own expense,[g] and welcomed all who came to him, proclaiming the kingdom of God and teaching about the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness and without hindrance., where footnote [g] refers to: Or in his own hired dwelling

So why should we suppose that Paul spent the 2 years in Rome under house arrest? It rather seems to me that we're merely told that there was a guard with him when he arrived and that 3 days later Paul talked about wearing a chain (perhaps a figure of speech and certainly not indicative of house arrest), while Acts subsequently insists that Paul was preaching without hindrance and makes no mention of a house arrest. So, do we have other sources to back this notion of house arrest up? Citation 18 is just a blind quote to the Oxford dictionary of the Christian church and doesn't seem particularly helpful here.

Mojowiha (talk) 13:22, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Other than Bible. Actually I think it might be church tradition. something here, for example, here too - books here and there. Hafspajen (talk) 13:28, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
My point is that the Bible (or Acts, to be specific) doesn't clearly say that Paul was under house arrest. That Acts 28:16 has a guard with Paul when he entered Rome doesn't mean that Paul was under house arrest for the subsequent 2 years, and Acts 28:31 seems to argue that Paul was free to do what he wanted as being under house arrest would certainly constitute a hindrance. If the 2 years of house arrest is a church tradition then we should have a source on it and remove the Acts 28:16 reference at it seems at best tangentially relevant to the issue.
Mojowiha (talk) 13:42, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Well, you got a point there. But I think I read about this mentioning house arrest... Wonder where. Eusebius, maybe? This say: While under house arrest in Rome, Paul was able to conduct a limited ministry. ... This one is quite interesting ...Hafspajen (talk) 13:45, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[2]

If the house arrest narrative is a Christian tradition, then the citation should be to Eusebius or whoever of the church fathers or other early Christians wrote of it. My point is simply that it's untenable to equate the description in Acts with house arrest. It's a parallel to how the matter and time of Paul's death is never described in the bible, but subsequent tradition placed it at the hands of Nero in the aftermath of the Great Fire of Rome in 64 AD.
Mojowiha (talk) 08:35, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
To me it seems that Acts is definitely implying a 2-year house arrest. "Without hindrance" simply indicates that Paul was not hindered from teaching and preaching by the Romans who guarded him. Anyway don't take my word for it. There's a clear consensus among contemporary scholars supporting this interpretation from Acts, and I've yet to come across a single scholar that supports yours. For example: David E. Aune, The Blackwell Companion to The New Testament, p. 330; Robert L. Cate, One Untimely Born, Mercer University Press, p. 129; Bart D. Ehrman, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, Oxford University Press, p. 233; J. R. Porter, The Illustrated Guide to the Bible, Oxford University Press, p. 240; Brian Rapske, The Book of Acts and Paul in Roman Custody Wm. B. Eerdmans, p. 434. So unless you have reliable sources saying otherwise, this is what Luke is saying in Acts 28:30-31. - Lindert (talk) 12:52, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
Acts 28:16. [3]. Hafspajen (talk) 13:09, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

References[edit]

  1. ^ Noor al-Thaqalain, vol 1, p 85; Bihar al-Anwar, vol 8, pp. 310, 311.
  2. ^ Encyclopedia of Quran, Tehran, vol 6, pp. 543 to 547.