Talk:Persecution of Buddhists

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Untitled comment[edit]

Nothing on the Emperor Wuzong of Tang? Seriously?--T. Anthony 10:32, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Dubious source[edit]

Can someone please explain the following source: "The Maha-Bodhi By Maha Bodhi Society, Calcutta"?

Is it a book, an article or what? Who is the author? If it is a book an Amazon link would be nice.Bless sins 02:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Can someone also give the quotation of what the source says? (this may not be necessary if you can give me a google books link or sufficient coverage of the book on some book review site).Bless sins 01:12, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
It's been a month since I requested more information. I'm removing it until someone can answer my above questions.Bless sins 04:33, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
It is the journal of the maha-bodhi society. The founder of the Archeological Society of India , Alexander Cunningham helped start this journal I believe.Bakaman 02:22, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Um, ok. Can you give some evidence of reliability? Who are the contributors? Is it associated with an institution? Does it have an official website?Bless sins 23:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Afghanistan[edit]

It was the one of only remaining Buddhist ancient figures in Afghan region which was able to survive from the Mughal invasion and later destroyed from the high explosives. Please do not try to destroy it for the second time. --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ walkie-talkie 01:38, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Huh? How can those destroyed figures get destroyed again? --Raphael1 17:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Keep this in your mind fellas, destroying the statues of people who do statue worshiping, can be taken as a persecution without any arguments (Similar to the burning of Bible or Quran). --♪♫ ĽąĦĩŘǔ ♫♪ walkie-talkie 18:13, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Cite how it has been viewed as a persecution of Buddhists specifically. As far as I can see, the outcry at the time was not from Buddhists in particular, and nor did it focus on it as a specific act of persecution. Cite, or it gets removed. Hornplease 18:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Are you trying to say that destruction of a symbol of religion is not persecution? Wikipedia is not a journal article which needs citation for each and every event, particularly when it is so well known!.Outlookeditor 18:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

We need a citation that it is relevant. This article is about the persecution of Buddhists, not of Buddhist icons.Hornplease 21:18, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Destruction of things which relate to a person's religion is persecution of the person who follows the religion. Also we can use other images if this one is causing a problem. --Matt57 (talkcontribs) 22:38, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
No. Whom would I persecute, if I'd burn my Bible and Qu'ran? --Raphael1 22:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I've found a text discussing Buddhists reactions: [1]. They mostly repeat Buddhas teaching, that "all things are impermanent (anicca)". They speak about a "destruction of Buddhist heritage", but nobody claims "persecution of Buddhists" (which would be odd, since there were no Buddhists in Afghanistan even before Chengis Khan started to vandalize the Buddhas in the 14th century). --Raphael1 22:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, well, "Destruction of things which relate to a person's religion is persecution of the person who follows the religion" - only if the religion states it is. Find a reliable source indicating that the destruction of these monuments amounted to persecution of people elsewhere, then it can be included happily. All I ask. Hornplease 22:49, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Did you guys read the lead of the article?
Persecution may refer to unwarranted arrest, imprisonment, beating, torture, or execution. It also may refer to the confiscation or destruction of property, or the incitement of hatred toward Buddhists.
By the way, Persecution of Muslims contains references to destruction of mosques ("The period the conquest of Kazan in 1552 to the ascension of Catherine the Great in 1762, was one of a systematic repression of Muslims by policies of exclusion and discrimination as well as the destruction of Muslim culture by destruction of outward manifestations of Islam such as mosques. "). The fact that Babri mosque was destroyed is also present. The whole article is full of incidents of mosques being targetted. Targetting of places of worship/reverence for a certain religious group is persecution. --Matt57 (talkcontribs) 02:31, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
The Babri Mosque was one of the largest mosques in Uttar Pradesh, a state in India with some 31 million Muslims. OTOH Buddhism declined in Afghanistan already in the 8th century. We should add the persecution of that time (in China as well) instead. --Raphael1 12:10, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
The de-Islamification under Catherine is hardly comparable; the destruction of Islamic cultural heritage in that period was part of a sustained campaign to subordinate the Muslim communities of the south of the Empire, and thus actual persecution - ie of people and their property - was bound in with the destruction of 'their' heritage. My only claim here is that there were, to the best of my knowledge, no Buddhists who regarded the Bamiyan statues as 'their' property; at least, that is uncited. I would like to see some connection between the destruction of those statues and some actual Buddhists who felt persecuted, please. (And more persecuted than all of us felt at the destruction of part of our common heritage.) Hornplease 13:03, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

The presence of Buddhists who user their statues for religious purposes is questionable. We clearly need more sources.Bless sins 05:35, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Can anyone justify further how the destruction of the statues of Buddha in Afghanistan is "persecution of Buddhists"? No Buddhist man, woman or child was harmed, nor was their property destroyed (the statues weren't their personal property).Bless sins 23:36, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Again we draw your attention to the definition of persecution; "Persecution may refer to unwarranted arrest, imprisonment, beating, torture, or execution. It also may refer to the confiscation or destruction of property, or the incitement of hatred toward Buddhists." It's exactly the same in principle when Muslims bleat on and on about Korans being flushed down the toilet. Let us use your logic BS. If I go to a store and buy a Koran it's my personal property is it not?. Am I not allowed to take a whizz on it and then try to flush it down the toilet? Why can't I smother it in gasoline and film it while I set it on fire? No women or children would be harmed. Prester John -(Talk to the Hand) 01:10, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

That does make sense.Bakaman 02:37, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Firstly Prester John, refer to me by my full name "Bless sins". Secondly, if a sick person buys a Qur'an and flushes it down the toilet, then they would not be, in theory, persecuting Muslims. But they'd be guilty of harboring anti-Islamic sentiment.Bless sins 23:37, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Wow, you really can't see it above can you? Ok. Here it is for the third time. I'll help you out, the definition (again) will be in itallics, the relevant part will be highlighted in bold. Here it is again; "Persecution may refer to unwarranted arrest, imprisonment, beating, torture, or execution. It also may refer to the confiscation or destruction of property, or the incitement of hatred toward Buddhists."

Your claim that the fully referenced section is WP:OR is absurd and will now be removed. Prester John -(Talk to the Hand) 03:02, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, and the Buddhas destroyed by the Taliban were not the property of Buddhists, unless you can find a source that says so.Bless sins 12:12, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Destroying another religion's statues built over a thousand years ago is destruction of religious (and cultural) heritage on the basis of religious ideology and is therefore persecution. --Nozzer71 (talk) 09:27, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Definition[edit]

Can we get a definition of "persecution of Buddhists"? I would also like a reliable source that vies this definition. Thanks.Bless sins 23:43, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Here is a problem with the current definition: "It also may refer to the confiscation or destruction of property".

What if a Buddhist man is carrying some illegal item (say, a weapon) and the police "confiscates" it. Is that an example of persecution? What if a Buddhist brings into a country some item (say, heroine) and the authorities declare illegal and destroy it, which is his property. Is that an example of "destruction of property" and thus persecution?Bless sins 04:26, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

It wouldn't be persecution unless the individual (acting legally) was targeted because they were Buddhist. We're not referring to the confiscation or destruction of illegal drugs here. I'm sure you understand that though. It seems to me you're trying to selectively define persecution in a way that suits your belief that the destruction of the Buddhas of Bamyan was anything but persecution of Buddhists by the Taliban. --DTGHYUKLPOQWMNB 05:53, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Forget drugs. What if a Buddhist is found carrying something illegal? It could be drugs, or it could be something else. Should confiscating items that are illegal and destroying them be called "persecution"? Regarding the Bamyan issue, please see the section above.Bless sins 16:24, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
I'll also add that the same definition of persecution is in use at the article Persecution of Muslims. I also note that you support such a definition as you have referred to "land confiscations" and "home demolitions" as persecutions in connection with "Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories" here. So can we give the definition challenging and the OR tagging a rest please? --DTGHYUKLPOQWMNB 06:01, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, and you do note that I never acted upon what I said. I don't care what you write on the talk page, as long as it doesn't appear on the articlespace. Also, you can't cite wiki articles. Please find a source that defines this concept.Bless sins 16:24, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically : to cause to suffer because of belief. Blowing up religious antiquities is meant to injure (Though not in a physical sense).Bakaman 20:09, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
Well in that case, I'm sure many Muslims were "injured" by Jyllands Posten cartoons. Is that an example of persecution as well? Sarcasm aside, please review WP:SYNTH which prohibits the use of two sources to promote a third view not stated by either of the sources.Bless sins 10:50, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
Your reading of WP:SYNTH is superficial and politically mischievous. A source noting the xxx government killing Buddhists would not be treated as persecution then. Boring us with false analogies really doesnt cut it.Bakaman 00:53, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
Please answer the key issues: did the Taliban destroy Buddhist property illegally, and what is the source for persecution of Buddhists.Bless sins 11:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
The questions deserve no answer, since they are obviously traps. There really need not be a source in a dictionary defining the term "persecution of buddhists" when we have two perfectly good terms "persecution" and "buddhists". As noted above, you do not use the same standard for Islam. Since news reports have documented a "persecution of buddhists" the concept meets WP:V which supersedes WP:SYNTH.Bakaman 22:59, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Please not of the consensus achieved here: Wikipedia_talk:No_original_research#Persecution. Unless the word persecution is used we shouldn't be calling it persecution.Bless sins 03:53, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Sources termed it persecution, it is reported on this page.Bakaman 04:01, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Which source? I don't see any.Bless sins 03:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I have re-instated the or tag since you have failed to provide a source that specifically says the Taliban persecuted Buddhists by demolishing the statues.Bless sins (talk) 09:51, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
A source has been provided. Again it should be noted that debating the semantics of an issue, especially one in which you have been pointed out to doublespeak in, is unproductive and disruptive.Bakaman 01:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
No a source for persecution of Buddhists has not been provided. Ironically, the only source that talks about persecution (this one), refers to persecution of Muslims in a Buddhist country (Cambodia).Bless sins (talk) 05:04, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Pakistan?[edit]

How comes we have a section Pakistan? How many Buddhists can be persecuted in Pakistan? Are there any? --Raphael1 23:25, 17 December 2007 (UTC)


I second that. The attempt to destroy ancient Buddhist statues and murals cannot be counted as persecution of Buddhists in these countries, because there aren't any Buddhists. Those criminals rather destroyed part of Afghan and Pakistani history, or at least it was an attempt to do that. I will remove that if nobody objects. --95.223.187.114 (talk) 15:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC) Guest

Removed articles on persecution in Pakistan / Afganistan[edit]

Blowing up an ancient statue is not persecution of Buddhist. It is certainly wrong, and harms the tourist industry, as well historical treasures of that countries, but these cannot be called persecutions, not even harassment as these countries did not have any Buddhist communities at the time when these incidents happened. Removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.223.187.114 (talk) 16:11, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Deletions[edit]

As explained here the following was deleted in the article by Hornplease (talk · contribs) but no reason was put on the talkpage. Why was it deleted, and how could it be improved..

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Persecution_of_Buddhists&diff=prev&oldid=155937610 Muslim conquerors also described Indian Pagans as But-parast, and idol-breakers as but-shikan. The word "but" is derived from the Persian word for Buddha, but was used by subsequent Muslims for "Indian paganism" in general.[1] Therefore in Muslim chronicles it is not always evident if Buddhists, Hindus or other Indian religions are described by term. In the 7th century Muhammad bin Qasim conquered Sindh and though he incorporated Buddhists into the into his administration as governors and is seen as having been welcomed against an unpopular Hindu king, is also noted to have demolished and sacked temples and monasteries and established Muslim rule.[2][3][4] Around 1000 CE, Turkic, Persian, and Afghan Muslims began major incursions into India through the traditional invasion routes of the northwest. Mahmud of Ghazni (979-1030) established a base in Punjab and raided nearby areas. Mahmud of Ghazni is said to have been an iconoclast.[5] Hindu and Buddhist statues, shrines and temples were looted and destroyed, and many Buddhists had to take refuge in Tibet.[6] He demolished numerous monasteries alongside temples during his raid across north-western India. In 1193, Qutb-ud-Din, a Turkish commander, seized control of Delhi, leaving defenseless the northeastern territories that were the heart of Buddhist India. The Mahabodhi Temple was almost completely destroyed by the invading muslim forces. [7] One of Qutb-ud-Din's generals, Ikhtiar Uddin Muhammad Bin Bakhtiyar Khilji, invaded Magadha and destroyed the great Buddhist shrines at Nalanda. [8] The Buddhism of Magadha suffered a tremendous decline under Khilji. [9] Muhammad of Ghor attacked the North-Western regions of the Indian subcontinent many times. Gujarat later fell to Muhammad of Ghor's armies in 1197. Muhammad of Ghor's armies destroyed many Buddhist structures, including the great Buddhist university of Nalanda. [10] In 1200 Muhammad Khilji, one of Qutb-ud-Din's generals destroyed monasteries fortified by the Sena armies, such as the one at Vikramshila. Many monuments of ancient Indian civilization were destroyed by the invading armies, including Buddhist sanctuaries near Benares. Buddhist monks who escaped the massacre fled to Nepal, Tibet and South India. [11] In 1215, Genghis Khan conquered Gandhara. In 1227, after his death, his conquest was divided. Chagatai then established the Chagatai Khanate, where his son Arghun made Buddhism the state religion. At the same time, he came down harshly on Islam and demolished mosques to build many stupas. He was succeeded by his brother, and then his son Ghazan who converted to Islam and in 1295 changed the state religion. After his reign, and the splitting of the Chagatai Khanate, little mention of Buddhism or the stupas built by the Mongols can be found in Afghanistan and Central Asia.[12] Timur was a 14th-century warlord of Turco-Mongol descent [13][14][15][16], conqueror of much of Western and central Asia, and founder of the Timurid Empire. Timur destroyed Buddhist establishments and raided areas in which Buddhism had flourished. [17][18] Mughal rule also contributed to the decline of Buddhism. They are reported to have destroyed many Hindu temples and Buddhist shrines alike or converted many sacred Hindu places into Muslim shrines and mosques.[19] Mughal rulers like Aurangzeb destroyed Buddhist temples and monasteries and replaced them with Islamic mosques. [20]

Care must be taken that nothing is whitewashed in the article. Librorum Prohibitorum (talk) 03:39, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

"Persecution"[edit]

I wanted to remind everyone of this. Unless an action, or view, or law (etc.) is specifically labeled as "persecution" (by a reliable source), it should not be in this article. This article is about persecution of Buddhists, not unfair acts against them, or anything that is not persecution.

To be "persecution" it must be called "persecution" by a reliable source (preferably multiple ones).

This is an accordance with consensus on Wikipedia_talk:No_original_research/Archive_34#Persecution. Thanks.Bless sins (talk) 14:06, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Persecution by Hindus[edit]

Nothing about that? That is strange - as Hinduism was one of the strongest opponents of Buddhism in India - mainly because Buddhism opposed both Brahmanism as well as trad. views on caste and other views. I believe that much of the decline of Buddhism on the subcontinent can be attributed to that, as well as the inclusion of Lord Buddha into the Hindu phanteon as an emanation (Avatar) of Vishnu. There is also modern harrasment (not necessarily persecution) of lower caste Ambedkar inspired converts to Buddhism, particular in Maharashtra, India. SUMMARY OF BRAHMAN ATROCITIES THAT DESTROYED BUDDHISM IN INDIA

1) The Divyavadana (ed. Vaidya, 282). The most important of the murderous Hindu bigots who carried out their systematic campaign of violence against the peaceful followers of Lord Buddha was Pushyamitra (184-48 B.C.), the founder of the Shunga dynasty. For details and refrences do see BELOW

2) Goyal [430] “The culprit in this case was Toramana, a member of the same dynasty as the Shaivite Mihirakula who did “immense damage to the Buddhist shrines in Gandhara, Punjab and Kashmir.” For details and refrences do see BELOW

3) Mihirakula is said to have razed 1600 viharas, stupas and monasteries, and “put to death 900 Kotis, or lay adherents of Buddhism” [Joshi, 404].

4) The Aryamanjushrimulakalpa tells us that Pushyamitra “destroyed monasteries with relics and killed monks of good conduct.” [Jayaswal, 18-19]

5) As Goyal [394] notes, “According to many scholars hostility of the Brahmanas was one of the major causes of the decline of Buddhism in India.”

6) The celebrated Tibetan historian Lama Taranatha mentions the march of Pushyamitra from Madhyadesha to Jalandhara. In the course of his campaigns, the book states, Pushyamitra burned down numerous Buddhist monasteries and killed a number of learned monks The archaeological evidence for the ravages wrought by Pushyamitra and other Hindu fanatic rulers on famous Buddhist shrines is abundant.

7) The Brhannaradiya-purana lays it down as a principal sin for a Brahmana to enter the house of a Buddhist even in times of great peril.

8) The drama Mrchchhakatika shows that in Ujjain the Buddhist monks were despised and their sight was considered inauspicious.

9) The Vishnupurana (XVIII 13-18) also regards the Buddha as Mayamoha who appeared in the world to delude the demons. Kumarila is said to have instigated King Sudhanvan of Ujjain to exterminate the Buddhists.

10) The Kerala-utpatti describes how he exterminated the Buddhists from Kerala.”

11) The Chinese traveller Yuan Chwang (Huen Tsang), who visited India in the seventh century records the oppressions of Shashanka, the king of Gauda, who was a devotee of Shiva.

12) Yuan Chwang’s account reads, “In recent times Shashanka, the enemy and oppressor of Buddhism, cut down the Bodhi tree, destroyed its roots down to the water and burned what remained.” [Watters II p.115] He also says that Shashanka tried “to have the image (of Lord Buddha at Bodhgaya) removed and replaced by one of Shiva”.

13) Another independent account of Shashanka’s oppressions is found in the Aryamanjushrimulakalpa, which refers to Shashanka destroying “the beautiful image of Buddha” [Jayaswal, 49-50].

14) Another prominent seventh century murderer of Buddhists was Sudhanvan of Ujjain, already mentioned in the quotation from Goyal above as having been supposedly instigated by Kumarila Bhatt.

15) Madhava Acharya, in his “Sankara-digvijayam” of the fourteenth century A.D., records that Suddhanvan “issued orders to put to death all the Buddhists from Ramesvaram to the Himalayas”.

16) Even after the Islamic invasions of India, Hindu bigotry and hatred for Buddhists was not subdued. According to Sharmasvamin, a Tibetan pilgrim who visited Bihar three decades after the invasion of Bakhtiaruddin Khilji in the 12th century, the biggest library at Nalanda was destroyed by Hindu mendicants who took advantage of the chaos produced by the invasion.

He says that “they (Hindus) performed a Yajna, a fire sacrifice, and threw living embers and ashes from the sacrifice into the Buddhist temples. This produced a great conflagration which consumed Ratnabodhi, the nine-storeyed library of the Nalanda University“. [Prakash, 213]. Numerous destroyed Buddhist shrines were converted into Hindu temples after their destruction.

17) Ahir [58] notes that “The Seat of Buddha’s Enlightenment was in the possession of a Hindu Mahant till 1952.

18) Similarly, at Kushinara, where the Buddha had entered into Mahaparinirvana, the cremation stupa had been converted into a Hindu temple, and on top of it stood the temple of Rambhar Bhavani when Cunningham discovered the site in 1860-61.

19) Among the shrines which still continue to be dedicated to Hindu gods mention may be made of the Caityas of Chezrala and Ter in Andhra Pradesh which are now Shiva and Vishnu temples respectively.

20) The temple of Madhava at Sal Kusa, opposite Gauhati in Asam, was once a sacred shrine of the Buddhists. …

21) And the famous Jagannatha temple at Puri in Orissa was also originally a Buddhist shrine.

22) Similarly, the Vishnupada temple at Gaya was also once a Buddhist shrine.” As Rajendralal Mitra notes in his famous work of 1878 [quoted in Ahir, 59] the feet of Buddha at Gaya were rechristened the feet of Vishnu and held as the most sacred object of worship in the new Vishnupada temple.

23) According to the records of Hieun Tsang and Kalhana’s Rajaatarangini, Asoka the great repented, converted to Buddhism (273-232 BC) and did a lot for Buddhism. Asoka renounced violence, and renounced his religion after the Kalinga war, and he became a Buddhist. During Asoka, Buddhism had become the state religion. The Brahmans did not like him, and many historians think the Brahaman opposition to Asoka led to the destruction of the Muyarian dynasty.

24) In Glimpses of World History Jawahrlal Nehru says the following about the Kushans (emphasis is mine and not Nehru’s): ” This Kushan Empire is interesting in many ways. IT WAS A BUDDHIST EMPIRE, and one of its famous rulers-the Emperor Kanishka-was ardently devoted to the dharma…the Kushans were Mongolians or closely allied to them. From the Kushan capital there must have been a continuous coming and going to the Mongolian homelands, and Buddhist learning and Buddhist culture must have gone to China and Mongolia…the Kushan Empire sat like a colossus astride the back of Asia, in between the Greaco-Roman world in the south. It was a halfway house both between India, and Rome, and India and China. The Kushan period corresponded with the last days of the Roman Republic when Julius Ceaser was alive, and first 200 years of the Roman Empire

25) THE HINDU KASHATRIYA HINDU AND BUDDHIST WARS Jawarhalal Nehru in his book Glimpses of World History says (Page 103 and 104) “Chandragupta proclaimed his holy war “against all foreign rulers in India. The Kashatriyas and the Aryan aristocracy, deprived of their power and positions by the aliens (Kushans), were at the back of this war. After a dozen or so years of fighting, Chandragupta managed to gain control over Northern India including what is now called UP. He then crowned himself king of kings. Thus began the Gupta dynasty. It was a period of somewhat aggressive Hinduism and nationalism. The foreign rulers-the Turkis and Parathions and other Non-Aryans were rooted our and forcibly removed. We thus find racial antagonism at work. The Indo-Aryan aristocrat was proud of his race and looked down upon these barbarians and malachas. Indo-Aryan States and rulers were conquered by the Guptas were dealt with leniently, But there was not leniency for non-Aryans.

26) Jawarhalal Nehru in his book Glimpses of World History says “Chandragupta’s son Samadugupta was an even more aggressive fighter than his father….the Kushans were pushed back across the Indus…Samadugupta’s son, Chandragupta II was also a warrior king, and he conquered Kathiwad and Gujrat, which had been under the rule of a Saka or Turki dynasty for a long time. He took the name Vikramaditya…..The Gupta period was a period of Hindu imperialism in India. There was a great revival of old Aryan culture and Sanskrit learning. The Hellenistic, or Greek and Mongolian elements in Indian life and culture which had been brought by the Greeks, Kushans and others were not encouraged, and were in fact deliberately superseded by laying stress on the Indo-Aryan traditions. Sanskrit was the official court language. But EVEN IN THOSE DAYS SANSKRIT WAS NOT THE COMMON LANGUAGE OF THE PEOPLE.

The spoken language was a form of Prakrit….Kalidasa belonged to this period ……………. Samadragupta changed the capital of his empire from Pataliputra (Peshawar) to Ayodhia. Perhaps he felt that Ayodhiya offered a more suitable outlook–with its story of Ramachandra immortalized in Valmikis epic.

27) HINDU BUDDHIST CONFLICT Jawarhalal Nehru in his book Glimpses of World History says “The Gupta revival of Aryanism and Hinduism was naturally not very favorably inclined towards Buddhism. This was partly because this movement was aristocratic, with the Kashatriya chiefs backing it, and Buddhism had more democracy in it; partly because the Mahayana form of Buddhism was closely associated with the Kushans and other alien rulers of northern India….but Buddhism declined in India…Chandragupta the first was a contemporary of Constantine the great, the Roman Emperor who founded Constantinople. “

28) HINDU IMPERIALISM SAILS TO THE FAR EAST AND DESTROYS THE MALAY CIVILIZATION The years of ANO DOMINI saw the beginning of Hindu imperialism outside India. Just like the Ferocious Aryans destroyed the IVC, these Hindu invaders destroyed the 2500 year old civilization of the Malay peninsula and imposed a foreign culture upon the peace loving people of the far east. Local temples were destroyed, people were enslaved, and the local language was abolished. Being polite, Jawahalal Nehru in the understatement of the century writes in his book Glimpses of World History says:

Jawarhalal Nehru in his book Glimpses of World History says “These colonizing excursions started in the first century after Christ and they continued for a hundred years. All over Malay and Java and Sumatra and Cambodia and Borneo they went, and established and took Indian culture with them…..In Burma and Siam and Indo-China there were large Indian colonies. Many times even of the names they gave to their new towns and settlements were borrowed from India-Ayodhia, Hastinapur, Taxila, Gandhara…No doubt Indian colonialists misbehaved wherever they went, as all such colonialists do. They must have exploited the people islands and lorded it over them….Hindu States and empires were established in these eastern islands, and then Buddhist rulers came, and between the Hindu and the Buddhist there was a tussle for mastery. It is a long and ..story………mighty ruins still tell us of the great buildings and temples …..there were great cities…Kamboja, Sri Vijay, Angkor …”

29) During this time Fa-hien visited India to study Buddhism (399 AD) and found “gaya wa waste and desolate“. He gives a detailed account of Buddhist persecution by the Brahman Aryans.


--95.223.187.114 (talk) 16:01, 30 October 2009 (UTC) Guest

Bangladesh[edit]

The few lines in the main article on 'Bangladesh' under the heading 'Persecution by Muslims' say :

"The Buddhist communities of Bangladesh are under pressure from the military and police not to practice Buddhism, and Buddhists have suffered abuse, arrest, and even rapes. The government encourages Muslim settlement in Buddhist areas, as part of its campaign to promote Islam.[32] According to Jumma exiles, torture and murder of Buddhists is a frequent occurrence.[33]"

This is a complete misrepresentation and mischaracterization of facts. Actually the word Buddhist here should be replaced by 'ethnic minorities of Parbattya Chattyagram' (a district in Bangladesh). Or just minorities. The situation this description actually alludes to, 'was' (note this) an ethnic & regional conflict between localized ethnic minority armed insurgents and the state/government. The insurgent group and the main ethnic minority tribes that it is made of (2 among 13 different tribes)happen to be Buddhists. But there are far more Buddhists in the country outside that particular region and of Bengali ethnicity (the dominant ethnic group in the country)who are living in the country perfectly ok. Even all the ethnicities (non-buddhists or not) in that region are not involved in that conflict. These groups felt their tribes/ethnic identities were marginalized and discriminated and engaged in an armed struggle with the government. I am not interested in the rights and wrongs here of that conflict, but it was in no way a buddhist-muslim or buddhism-islam conflict. The simple fact that, Buddhists in the entirety of the country outside that particular region did not join in that conflict or suffered in anyway as a result of that, shows that it was not a religious conflict. This goes to show that, it 'was' an ethnic conflict based on ethnic insurgency. The citations the article provides are also only about that particular region of the country -- not as a whole (and buddhists of various ethinicities live all over the country). At best, you may even call it a regional conflict, or one between the majority & minority. Of course, intelligent insurgent propaganda will obviously try to colour it in a different way to attract international sympathy for their cause (especially from other buddhist countries). Please note this.

Now, atrocities may have been committed, but it was mutual - committed by all parties involved. The editors of this article can check it out if they wish. The insurgents also brutally massacared many many innocent civilians of bengali ethnicity. Please remember the LTTE and other similar terrorist/insurgent groups here and their various shenanigans.

"pressure from the military and police not to practice Buddhism". Excesses happen in conflict zones all over the world. Few isolated incidents against ethnic minority rituals may (or not) have happened in that particular locale carried out by over-zealous individuals or individual counter-insurgency security personnel on hair-string footing and under constant insurgent/terrorist attacks & threats & pressure, but this happens nowhere else in the country, nor does your citations show that. Therefore, such generalized statement must be considered serious misrepresention of facts & thus falsehood. The practice of Buddhism is not banned anywhere in the country, nor is it discouraged in any shape or form anywhere. In fact Buddhist relics and sites are preserved with extreme care and reverence as part of national heritage (e.g. in Paharpur or Moynamoti). The Bengali language itself (the mother tongue of the dominant/ruling ethnic group of the country) traces its origins through Buddhist manuscripts of late first millenium Buddhist poems called "Chorjachorjo-Binishchoy" - the earliest extant examples of their language.

"Buddhists have suffered...": Ethnic insurgents (and perhaps sometimes members of their same ethnicities or tribes) may have because of their armed insurgency against the state (some of those ethic insurgents may have been Buddhists), but "Buddhists" as such did and does not. There are far more Buddhists in the country outside that region and those tribes, and they are not complaining. They are fine. In short, this is a misrepresentational generalized statement ! - which must be either corrected or deleted (preferably deleted since this article is not about ethnic conflicts, and relocated to any article on ethnic conflicts if necessary).

"...Buddhist areas...": There is NO buddhist area as such in the country at all. If there should be any, then the whole country IS. It's even official :-)) And it's also the fact on the ground. Buddhists are everywhere in the country since many Bengalis are also Buddhists (albeit minority). The fact of the matter is, the conflict zone I have referred to above, and the quoted text in the article very disingenuously and covertly also refers to without at all mentioning the completely localized (and ethnic) nature and extent of the problem, is mainly inhabited by many tribal ethnic groups. And not all of them are even Buddhists. There are christians, animists, and followers of other faiths too.

"...as part of its campaign to promote Islam...": The government does not and never did, conduct any campaign whatsoever to 'promote Islam' by 'encouraging Muslim settlement' anywhere in the country. This is just total hogwash. The incidences this line refers to were actually part of rehabilitation through resettlement program of destitute luckless landless people who have lost everything during many frequent catastrophic cyclones, tidal waves, floods, and other disastrous natural calamities that regularly plagues this poor and THE MOST DENSELY populated country in the world AND in the entire history of humankind ! (just visit Dhaka, if you want to get a taste of it first hand :-D You will never forget it I promise.) A large number of poor people in this country live (are forced to by circumstances) in landstrips, called 'Chor' in bengali, risen out of riverbeds - in this very highly riverine deltaic country. But these landstrips sometimes or often get washed away or drowned by floods etc, and the survivors have nowhere to go or re-settle to -- except for that particular relatively lightly-populated part of the country. The government in a certain period resettled a tiny minority of these people in that particular region out of sheer necessity. There are some though, who suspect other -- deeper hidden intentions. For example, the hidden intention of fighting a long-standing separatist ethnic insurgency in a longer term, by influencing the ethnic demography of that district by re-settling these destitute Bengali people there. There is no proof for this intention though apart from the suspicions or allegations of the insurgents themselves, and more importantly, on the face of it - the official reason looks quite genuine: there was nowhere these people could have re-settled (not enough free space or land available anywhere else in the country; and if people of the same country cannot move from one part of it to another and if necessary relocate/resettle/start a new life there, then what's the point of it being ONE country at all? They merely practised their legal, democratic and human rights. Finally, the problem arising out of this whole situation - whatever the hidden intentions of the government was or not, is entirely 'ethnic', and IN NO WAY related to 'Buddhism' as such ! That's sheer, and seemingly deliberate, misrepresentation. "...Jumma exiles..." : What is 'Jumma' ? It doesn't mean Buddhist or Buddhism at all. In fact, this word gives away the disingenuous misrepresantation and glaringly (to any informed person) covert intentions/agenda of the text. The word simply means, inhabitants of the hill region. Nothing to do with Buddhists as such. There are people of all sorts of persuasions in that region. It's a word that indicates a particular topography, NOT Buddhism.

FINALLY, all of the above situation of conflict has changed since 1997. A peace treaty was signed between the government and the insurgent tribal ethnic-based group fighting the government. Conflict and anti-insurgency military activities have totally stopped since then. The government has accepted almost all of their wishes : including (but not limited to) such utterly undemocratic demands like guaranteed 2/3rd majority in elections and guaranteed overwhelming majority in hill council seats by disenfranchising the rest of the population/citizens there, induction into local government and their personnel, induction into local law enforcement, land reform in favour of the minority ethnic groups, and the devastatingly inhuman wish of forced expulsion of ALL non-land-owning Bengali people from there. The last one practically and literally really means (probably deliberately camouflaged for any hidden agenda) the ethnic-cleansing of almost the entire ethnic Bengali population of that region, since most of them are actually non-landowning poor people who were resettled and rehabilitated there from other parts of the country generations ago -- inside clustered settlements on state/government-owned lands (and not owned by the settlers privately/personally). They will ALL have to go. In fact, if anything, the situation now should be called "an ethnic-cleansing of Bengalis - in waiting", instead of anything happening to Buddhitsts, ethnic minorities, or to anybody else.

...monmajhi... 02:17, 31 October 2009 (UTC)


        >>> The paragraph on Bangladesh deleted from the article based on the explanation given above.

--...monmajhi... 07:06, 3 November 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Monmajhi (talkcontribs)

North Korea[edit]

There are no sources for the statements on North Korea, and the wording of the sentence regarding the cult of personality surrounding the Kim dinasty had non-neutral language so I rewrote it with proper encyclopedic language. Pradamant (talk) 20:30, 14 September 2013 (UTC).

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  5. ^ Notes on the Religious, Moral, and Political State of India Before the Mohammedan Invasion:... By Faxian, Sykes (William Henry) pg.??
  6. ^ How to Prepare for the Sat II: World History By Marilynn Hitchens, Heidi Roupp, pg. ??
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  8. ^ The Maha-Bodhi By Maha Bodhi Society, Calcutta (page 8)
  9. ^ The Maha-Bodhi By Maha Bodhi Society, Calcutta (page 205)
  10. ^ Historia Religionum: Handbook for the History of Religions By C. J. Bleeker, G. Widengren page 381
  11. ^ Islam at War: A History By Mark W. Walton, George F. Nafziger, Laurent W. Mbanda (page 226)
  12. ^ The Ilkhanate
  13. ^ B.F. Manz, "Tīmūr Lang", in Encyclopaedia of Islam, Online Edition, 2006
  14. ^ The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia, "Timur", 6th ed., Columbia University Press: "... Timur (timoor') or Tamerlane (tăm'urlān), c.1336–1405, Mongol conqueror, b. Kesh, near Samarkand. ...", (LINK)
  15. ^ "Timur", in Encyclopaedia Britannica: As explained here the following was deleted in the article by Hornplease (talk · contribs) but no reason was put on the talkpage. Why was it deleted, and how could it be improved.. "... [Timur] was a member of the Turkic Barlas clan of Mongols..."
  16. ^ "Baber", in Encyclopaedia Britannica: "... Baber first tried to recover Samarkand, the former capital of the empire founded by his Mongol ancestor Timur Lenk ..."
  17. ^ Sir Aurel Stein: Archaeological Explorer By Jeannette Mirsky
  18. ^ Ethnicity & Family Therapy edited by Nydia Garcia-Preto, Joe Giordano, Monica McGoldrick
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  20. ^ India By Sarina Singh