Talk:Persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union

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20 million killed because of atheist policies[edit]

Just like the number of 20 million was not supported by neutral reliable sources it seems the number of 12 million cannot be relied upon either. All the sources are Christians with a high probability of having a stake in getting the number as high as possible. There is no dispute about the fact that a big number of Christians have died because of Soviet government policies. What has been insufficiently demonstrated is the claim that those Christians all died because of their faith. This seems highly unlikely given the fact that most of the persecution was concentrated in only two decades and that during those times most victims died for other reasons like Stalin's paranoia, ethnic "reforms", generic suppression of all who could even remotely pose a treat to power, agricultural policies etc. Many reasons besides aiming specifically at Christians. After the two decades of suppression the Orthodox Russian Church was even allowed to have sustained significant growth. To claim 12 million died as a cause of atheist/secular motives requires far better evidence than presented. This is a highly disputed claim! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.142.3.239 (talk) 21:22, 15 May 2014 (UTC)



I have reverted addition of the following text:

The total number of Christians killed, as a result of Soviet state atheist policies, has been estimated at over 20 million.[1][2][3]
  1. ^ Todd M. Johnson, “Christian Martyrdom: A global demographic assessment“, pp. 4-5
  2. ^ Orthodox Leaflet “The Way Home. Issue 13.2e - The Orthodox Church”, article prepared by Anne K. Turley, and originally published with the blessing of the Most Reverend Anthony Archbishop of Western American San Francisco
  3. ^ “Focusing on the Persecuted Church: The Century of Martyrs” at http://www.jwipn.com

First the sources are certainly not reliable there are things like anonymous leaflets or selfpublished staff with sentences like: Karl Marx, a German Jew who initially embraced Christianity, but later turned to Satanism., etc. Most people killed by Bolsheviks were not killed because of their christian faith but because of their class or ethnic heritage, false accusation in espionage, etc. The total number of victims is strongly debated but probably less than 20 millions. We need a better sourcing to enter an exact number of victims, I am not sure a reliable number of victims of faith-based repressions is available, though Alex Bakharev (talk) 04:34, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes, if someone wants to include statistics on religious persecution, they need better sources and rewrite. My very best wishes (talk) 18:46, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

I believe the “Christian Martyrdom: A global demographic assessment“ reference qualifies as reliable, since its author, professor Todd M. Johnson, has expertise in religious demographics. However, according to the following books, the number has also been estimated to 12 million (James M. Nelson), and 15-20” millions (David Barrett, cited by David Taylor). Since it is not our job to determine the correct number, I believe it is reasonable to state that the number has been estimated to range between 12-20 millions. (Also, please note that the proposed text, does not claim that 12-20 millions were actually killed, but merely that the number of victims has been estimated at 12-20 millions.) Cody7777777 (talk) 07:29, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

OK, I personally do not have objections to any version. My very best wishes (talk) 22:48, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Seems one-sided[edit]

This article seems written so as to advance one point of view over another. It's few sources mostly come from same group of publications that are primarily connected to the churches and faiths involved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.217.158.64 (talk) 15:35, 23 September 2014 (UTC)