Talk:Persian carpet

Persian or Azerbaijani?

This category can be named Iranian carpet, but never Persian carpet. Because all the carpets famouse as Iranian carpets are woven by Azerbaijani people of the country called Iran. Azerbaijan, a Turkic country was devided into North and South Azerbaijan by Turkmenchay treaty between Russia and Iran in 1828. Now 35 000 000 Azeris live in South Azerbaijan and other parts of Iran. But Persian statistics try to hide this fact saying that 51% of Iranian population are Persians. 51 is a deceiveng figure which allows minimum falsification. In this article, ancient Turkic carpets are introduced like Persian carpets. This is another proof of how Persians steal other nations' culture to seem as a nation with rich culture. But they forget one thing: that is Turkic nations exist and still produce rich samples of culture and art and that they will never succeed to steal Turkic culture because half of the Turkic countries are now independent and taking necessary steps to restore their author rights. Soon the world will get to know about the fake actions of the Persians.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Tabriz Azerbaijan (talk • contribs) 01:42, July 30, 2009

This is not a forum, where you can discuss your ideas. Per WP:NOTFORUM, "Wikipedia is not a place to publish your own thoughts and analyses or to publish new information not previously published"

Rug or carpet?

"Rug" sounds very odd in this context. Doesn't everyone use "carpet"? Isn't a "rug" like a schmata for the floor? Something you roll up and truck about, like a prayer rug. Perhaps "carpet" in middle-class American usage now only denotes a fitted broadloom. --Wetman 21:34, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Carpet and rug are used pretty much interchangably by scholars - see carpet article for distinctions claimed by some. -astragal

The dividing line is considered the two metre mark in the longest side of the piece. Therefore, a six foot by four foot (6x4) piece would be considered a rug, whereas an eight foot by five foot piece (8x5) is considered a carpet. - --latifrugs

Fur further information please look into http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Carpets right at the beginning. --Krisbi2210 (talk) 08:41, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Is this really how persian rugs are made?

"Years ago Amy Carmichael wrote about the incredible process that produces these masterpieces. Try to picture this. There are two sets of workmen sitting on a bench on one side of the carpet which is hanging from a beam up above. The designer stands on the other side; he's holding a pattern in his hand and he directs the workers by calling across to them exactly what they're to do next. It's like a chant actually. And then the workman chants back to the designer the word that he's heard, verifying that order. Then the workman cuts from whatever bobbin has been ordered and he pushes that thread through the carpet warp and he knots it. All he can see is that thread. He sees nothing of the pattern until the carpet is finished."

no. first, carpets don't "hang from a beam" - the warp (vertical) threads are arranged on the loom from top to bottom before weaving is begun. second, ome carpets are woven from a cartoon or design. the range of detail is huge. some of have the pattern worked out to the stitch on graph paper, others are a more general summary of the design. smaller carpets woven outside in more domestic settings are often produced from memory with no cartoon. the corners are a good indication of whether a cartoon was used: a graceful, diagonal, corner solution cannot be acheived without a pattern to follow. in any case, there is no designer on hand: the cartoon is either suspended behind the warp threads (taped to the wall for the example), or a section of the design is tucked into the warp threads so as to be readily visible to the weavers. third, weavers work on the front side of a carpet and can see the design develop as the work progresses. oh, but weavers do often in work in pairs (or more). -Astragal

In fact, a mix is used, depending on the region. The technique described at top - calling out patterns - is used, though mainly in Kashmir. It may not sound too exotic, but neither is weaving off a piece of graph paper (or cartoon) in which the weaver has had no artistic input.

All the nonfuntioning links

I'm not particularly interested in helping, but someone should try to put accurate links on that list where it's 98% red (nonfuntional) links.

How Wikipedian of you. Of course the reason the links for the classifications of Persian carpets don't work is because no one has written articles on them yet. They are at this point only "potential information." But I'm sure you knew that - you just decided to state the obvious, and make no effort to be part of the solution despite your handle. Thanks!! Astragal 16:31, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Merger of categories

There are two categories relating to rugs: 1. Category:Rugs which is a sub-category of Category:Textile arts which is a sub category of the Categories: Artistic techniques | Art media | Textiles | Crafts | Arts and crafts and 2. Category:Rugs and carpets which is a sub-category of Category:Textiles

I propose to merge Category:Rugs into Category:Rugs and carpets. Please see discussion at Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Rugs_to_Category:Rugs_and_carpets --A Y Arktos 21:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

My link

Hi everyone,

I have a web site about Handmade Persian Rugs and there I have two documentary movies which were produced by us (Sobhe Trading Co.) I thought it might be an interesting thing to be added to the Persian Rug page of wikipedia.org. The movies can be find at www.rugidea.com/movies I tried adding it to this page acouple of times but each time, for some reason, it was found as an advertisement for my web site. Please let me know if there is a proper way of adding an external link to wikipedia.org. You may also contact me if you have any questions. ashkan@drsobhe.com

Many thanks,

Ashkan

Wikipedia doesn't generally support external links to commercial websites - see Wikipedia:External links and Wikipedia:spam for more advice. -- Solipsist 12:50, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Damascus Rug

Should Damascus Rug from Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedic articles/Hot/D/Dab-Dar redirect here?-- _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus  talk}  19:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Daddeh family rugs

In the history section there is a sentence-

A number of rugs believed to have been woven by the famous Daddeh family were recently discovered and then auctioned in Agra, India, fetching some of the highest prices ever observed in the rug market.

I moved it from the end of the paragraph that talks about the age of the rug making art since their was no obvious connection. It's still not clear to me why this is here. I presume these are important rugs. It would be great to have a bit more information in the article on why they're important and what the significance of the find is. --Siobhan Hansa 13:40, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. This paragraph was added recently - it seems likely to be true, but it would help to have a reference and some more background. (Still better than many of the edits we get here). -- Solipsist 14:36, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Propsosal for external link

Would like to propose external link to article about Persian rugs. It is located at the following url: http://www.oldandsold.com/articles02/article1030.shtml Smithville 00:30, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I've just responded to a similar post from you on another article I'm interested in - and the response is the same. These articles are really not very good. This one in particular seems like a POV, essay on how to buy a rug. In fairly poor English (which isn't the worst thing in the world, but it doesn't help). The adding of the link doesn't seem to serve our readers well. --Siobhan Hansa 04:37, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Types of carpets

It seems to me that the whole category of tribal rugs is missing from this section. I'm just learning about Persian rugs, but have found the distinctions made at oldcarpet.com useful. Is there any reason not to arrange this section along similar lines? --Philbarker 18:51, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of the Persian Carpet is Contested

Persian Carpets (not Rug)

Persian carpets is the correct term which has been in use for centuries. Encyclopaedia Iranica also recognises the "Persian Carpet" as the scholarly and correct term than "Rug". Persian rug is a subdivision of Persian Carpets. Google search provides:

354,000 entries for Persian Rug (which mainly are commercial websites)

428,000 entries for Persian Carpet (almost half scholarly and research websites)

190.000 entries for Persian Carpets (most of them scholarly and research websites)

I believe People promote to keep "Persian Rug page" have commercial interests, rather educational. ← ← Parthian Shot (Talk) 05:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

PS. The previous article "Persian rug", was POVs, and poorly written with no academic citations to support the entries. ← ← Parthian Shot (Talk) 11:50, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that this page should not be permanently deleted. I tagged it for history-merge, not permanent deletion (its location can be determined by WP:BRD or by talk-page consensus among people who know about the subject (I don't know much). See your talk page for more information. --ais523 12:02, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

External Link (Spam)

Dear Contributors: Please refrain yourself from adding commercial links to the article. Many of the commercial sites are not literate or educated enough to provide accurate info, which subsequently would undermines the integrity of this article. In addition, it is against Wikipedia policy WP:LINKS. ← ← Parthian Shot (Talk) 06:57, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

"Persian Rug in Household Setting" Picture not Persian, but Turkmen

The picture entitled "Persian rug in a household setting" was actually made in Turkmenistan. It is a traditional Turkmen design. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.240.139.80 (talk) 13:41, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Flat-woven carpets

This may be of help to your article. You may use it if you find it useful:

Rugs are flat (pileless), un-knotted hand-woven textiles used as floor and wall coverings, bags and tent trappings. Unlike carpets, rugs are woven on a loom using vertical warps and horizontal wefts to weave the threads together much as any handmade fabric is woven. Usually the warp (the length of kilim) is made of wool and the weft (the width of kilim) of wool or cotton. The couloured threads are completely woven into the kilim like a basket, making it reversible. Although the face may be distinguished from the reverse, the difference is so slight that either side may be used.

“Kilim”, simply is a flat woven carpet or a kind of rug without any pile or knotted fluff: a coarse, thin hand made carpet. The terms used to describe flatweaves are indeed as varied as the trival weaving groups themselves. Some of the names used to describe flatwoven rugs are “hanbel” in North Africa, in Turkey and Afghanistan it is called “Kilim”, in Ukraine “Palas”, in Caucasia “Liat”, In Syria and Lebanon it is called “Chilim” and in Iran “Gelim”. Today the term ‘KILIM’ has become the known term for a flatwoven rug of any origin, raw materilakm method of construction and pattering. 1 sourde: 1) Kilim – the Compete guide” by Alastair Hull and Jose Luczyk Wyhoweska, page 22 1993 Thaames & Hudson Ltd., London, reprinted 2005

In the past, kilim weaving had an important role in women’s life and it was the major part of their dowry and also a source of income. So brides had to learn this craft; of course, it must be considered, that weaving has only been allocated to woven and yet it is one of their routine tasks of tribe women. Kilims have greatly changed during centuries, i.e., more marriages among different tribes, make different styles mixed together. By the end of 19th century, kilim weaving was damaged by undesired chemical dyes imported form European Countries. It is obvious, that the reasons of kilim weaving have been vastly changed, in recent years; cultural motives and personal usage of weaving gave its place to benefits of trading. A glance at various kilims of different regions, either old or new, shows that the original kilims have their own special place, as before. --Krisbi2210 (talk) 10:40, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Islamic period

Here are some useful links for profound information:

http://witcombe.sbc.edu/ARTHislamic.html#Islamic http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Carpets with explanation of difference between carpets and rugs

and for fragments: http://www.clemusart.com/explore/department.asp?deptgroup=3&display=list&recNo=125

for history: http://www.lacma.org/islamic_art/emp.htm = Islamic Art at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art best regards from Germany --Krisbi2210 (talk) 08:10, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Traditional Centers of carpet production in Iran

This chapter was copied word by word from [1]without a reference to this page. Because I am a new member I don't know how you cope with this matter. --Krisbi2210 (talk) 12:26, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

The type of the carpet in the article

Can anyone tell me what the style of the carpet in the article is called (it's in the Islamic section, only the middle part of the carpet is in the picture)? Thank you.

Worlds Largest Rug

Can someone upload some of the following info concerning the largest carpet made by Iranian weavers for the Zayed mosque. The following is an excerpt from the link provided at bottom:

Authorities in Iran unveiled what they described as the world's largest hand-woven rug at Tehran's open-air prayer grounds.

At 60,546 square feet (5,625 square meters), the carpet is the size of a soccer field and was woven by 1,200 weavers in three villages over the course of a year and a half.

The mammoth floor covering is destined for a monumental new mosque under construction in the United Arab Emirates. Emirati officials commissioned Iran's state-owned rug manufacturer to create the piece for the central prayer hall of the giant Sheikh Zayed mosque, in the capital city of Abu Zaby (Abu Dhabi).

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/08/070801-iran-picture.html

Finest In the World?

The statement, "Persian carpets are the finest in the world," must be a subjective statement as presented here, as it does not present evaluative or comparative evidence. It should be changed to demonstrate how an why Persian rugs are the finest in the world, or removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.47.4 (talk) 16:59, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Weavers?

Most of the carpets are not woven, they are knotted. Carpet maker(s) would be a more appropriate term.

One famous Persian carpet is not listed here. The Bijar carpet is known as the "Iron Carpet", because it is made from unusually tough wool. It can stand a lot of heavy traffic and will outlast any owner. I have numerous Persian carpets, my Bijar is right inside the front door. The Bijar is made with 2 wefts, and the pile is very dense so it stands at 90 degrees and does not flatten with usage. Classically, the 2 wefts are of different sizes, the first is very thick with a high twist and applied wet. The second is thinner. Some old Bijar carpets have 3 wefts. Bijar is in the Kurdish region of Persia (Iran), and they speak an unusual Kurdish dialect.Historygypsy (talk) 16:18, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Intentional mistake?

Isn't there usually an intentional mistake to show it's not perfect (since only Allah is meant to be perfect)? Malick78 (talk) 23:30, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

The That is certainly the case in the more "grander" designs. Hence the saying "the Persian carpet is perfectly imperfect, precisely imprecise." That, and the term for God in Farsi is "Khoda,"[2] as opposed to "Allah," which is the Arabic. The Scythian 23:13, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Sassanian Capital

Section: Zoroastrian period; penultimate paragraph. Although The Romanised version of the capital city's name "Ctesiphon" has been once mentioned in this section, the final sentence in the paragraph also refers to it as "Tuspawn". Instead of altering it to "Ctesiphon" or "Tisfoon", the common Persian pronunciation, I'm respecting the original for now and am querying the source for this pronunciation, "Tuspawn". — Preceding unsigned comment added by SBader (talk • contribs) 22:35, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Modern Period

Persian carpets are not just more expensive than machine woven carpets because they are "an artistic presentation" but because it requires MORE TIME to produce them by hand than by machine. This holds true for any commodity in the world, value or price of a commodity has very little to do with colours, patterns, and styles because machines can do all of these things in less time and using less resources (i.e. machines dont need food, water, and shelter, nor do they call in sick for work). It is perfectly possible to produce high quality carpets using machinery that also have artistic styles, designs and patterns if not better than the ones weavers produce.

The introduction states that "1.2 million weavers" are found in Iran but in another section it states that "nearly five million workers are engaged in the Iranian carpet industry." This needs further clarification, by "industry" who are you referring to? Industrialists? Company owners? Transporters? Retailers? Workers? All of them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.84.68.252 (talk) 07:42, 12 January 2012 (UTC)