Talk:Pledge of Allegiance

Removed quote that was concocted in the book the referenced article relies on and cites

The quote was removed because it misleadingly made it seem that this was a direct quote from Bellamy. It is clear from reading the source book, "The Pledge: A History of the Pledge of Allegiance" (Amazon, look inside) that the authors concocted this statement from whole cloth. In the same paragraph, they actually admit that Bellamy's views on immigration were voiced years after he wrote the Pledge. There is plenty of first-hand material that explains why every word in the Pledge was originally included without reference to immigrants - and none that does. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kcornwall (talk • contribs) 00:28, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Added Newdow vs Rio Linda Unified School District to the Article

I have added the recently decided case of Newdow versus Rio Linda Unified School District to the article. Safiel (talk) 17:33, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

why did you change the pledge of allegiance over and over again till the 1950s. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.216.170.50 (talk) 08:42, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

The Jehovah's Witnesses cases

The article mentions the Jehovah's Witnesses cases in the 40s but does not say the JWs won--one cannot be compelled to say the Pledge. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.82.148 (talk) 22:36, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Why to the flag?

It seems odd that allegiance is being pledged to the flag. Is there any explanation for why this is?173.16.12.107 (talk) 16:20, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, it isn't only to the flag. Did you read the History section? — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 18:01, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Please note that discussion pages are reserved for discussing improvements to the article ONLY, and not discussion of the topic itself. TechBear | Talk | Contributions 04:39, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

"...and to the republic for which it stands..."146.201.16.50 (talk) 18:50, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Erroneous Timeline

The helpful timeline to the side is not correct. It adds the words "under God" in the first revision in 1892, without bolding to indicate a change. I do not think it was in the pledge at any time before 1954, as the article itself explains. I think I'll just change that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Misha Vargas (talk • contribs) 22:39, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

First Amendment

The article quotes the first amendment incorrectly as having protections against the establishment of religion. This is wrong. The amendment protects against congress respecting AN establishment of religion not THE establishment of religion. There is a big difference. For example Mcdonalds is an establishment of the fast food industry as is wendy's, subway, etc. while THE fast food establishment includes all of them. The first amendment if written regarding fast food instead of religion would read: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of fast food"......would this mean they could not have pizza delivered for lunch? Of course not, that is absurd but they would be prevented from making a particular establishment the official national fast food. The intent of the amendment is to prevent CONGRESS from making a law to create a state religion. Catholisism is an establishment, Baptists are AN establishment, Lutherens are AN establishment, etc., while they all combined constitute THE establishment. In other words the first amendment does not prevent prayer in school, Under God in the pledge or mandatory prayer when entering city hall. Secondly, the amendment only puts restrictions on Congress from making A LAW. If I demand someone pray upon entering my home I have not violated their rights. It's all pretty simple logic.

. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.57.225.211 (talk) 21:18, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing your concerns here, but the article does not quote the First Amendment, either correctly or incorrectly. It offers no interpretation as to that amendment's contents or meaning. Besides which, pizza is my religion, so your arguments only confuse me further. — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 04:33, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Undue weight on controversy

Half this article is about the "controversy surrounding the pledge", this is a clear violation of WP:UNDUE and WP:CRITICISM. Is it possible to try and incorporate all that into the main section?

Seniortrend (talk) 05:46, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Substitution of the words "under Law"

This entire section is sourced by nothing other than a primary source and, IMHO, requires either additional WP:RS third-party sourcing or removal. Anyone else? JakeInJoisey (talk) 00:55, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

States requiring the Pledge

I think the following seems to be a better reference for the assertion near the end of the article that about half the states require the Pledge in one way or another - I am not sure this site is mentioned anywhere, but it seems like another good reference:

http://undergod.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000074

Nicholas Duchon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.112.122.205 (talk) 06:04, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Another question (to which I don't know the answer; ignorant Scot, sorry) is 'when it says 'require' does that refer to public schools or to private schools as well? Is that true of all the states which 'require' things or does it vary?' This is a question which would need answered (and doesn't appear to be answered by the page linked to) if one were wanting to further disambiguate the article from what it says at the moment (which to my mind is acceptable). 94.193.220.27 (talk) 11:47, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Proper citation?

Can someone please investigate the correct version of the pledge in 1942? The 'Official versions' table shows that between 1924 and 1954, the pledge was "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands; one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

Yet in the Changes section it is quoted as being accepted on June 22, 1942 as "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In the first one there is a semi-colon after 'stands'. In the second there is a comma in that spot, along with an additional comma after 'indivisible'.

Thanks, WesT (talk) 21:22, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Point of View

This article is written from a purely American point of view and could be considerably improved if other perspectives were taken into account. For example, are children (of American parents) in other countries required to take the pledge of allegiance and are there laws requiring them to do so and have these been tested to the same degree? Are there pledges of allegiance in other countries like Vanuatu or Sierra Leone or whatever and how do their words differ from the single version offered in this article? Additionally, has anyone considered that requiring servicemen to, "remain silent throughout" might contravene their freedom of speech and has this ever been tested in the courts? Think big, guys, and this might become a really great article. Cottonshirtτ 19:54, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

We can only write about what we find in reliable sources. If you can find a reliable source which addresses these issues then it would probably be appropriate to add something about them. But we can't do so based only on our own thoughts and conclusions.   Will Beback  talk  21:18, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Considered nationalist?

I have a question which could possibly be worked into the article: Is the pledge of allegiance not considered nationalist or even fascist in the USA? Over here in Europe it would be kind of odd to swear children in on their country like durig the dark ages of fashism in the 1930s and 40s. The only time you have to pledge something (at least iN Austria, where I'm living) is when you do your mandatory army service or when you start working for the government eg as a teacher, but it is more like an oath to the office. Could these considerations be taken into account under a possible "criticism - reception" heading? As far as I understand it the pledge of allegiance is also criticised within the US.--Schmutzman (talk) 09:19, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

My experience would confirm the coverage in the Controversy section of the article: most of the criticism regards religious issues rather than nationalism, but see Criticism of the Pledge of Allegiance for some sourced material on the subject. AV3000 (talk) 05:34, 24 January 2012 (UTC)