Talk:Pope

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Gradual Increase in Power[edit]

So this article makes no mention of the fact that the papacy grew in power and influence over centuries, rather than being "suddenly" powerful in 1871 as the article seems to indicate, and neither does it say anything about the Bishop of Rome competing with other bishoprics for power and influence until they were the only ones left.

Separately, I notice in the archives of talk that this article (in the opinion of some) seems to suffer from a lack of neutral point of view. Makes me wonder if anything can be done about that, since those that care about their own point of view seem to dominate. Just wanting to note this for the record. I don't expect anything to change because of this post. Hires an editor (talk) 02:51, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Antichrist Section[edit]

What the hell is this batshittery? Who's the "we," and why is this paragraph part of this article?

43. As to the Antichrist we teach that the prophecies of the Holy Scriptures concerning the Antichrist, 2 Thess. 2:3-12;`1 John 2:18, have been fulfilled in the Pope of Rome and his dominion. All the features of the Antichrist as drawn in these prophecies, including the most abominable and horrible ones, for example, that the Antichrist "as God sitteth in the temple of God", 2 Thess. 2:4; that he anathematizes the very heart of the Gospel of Christ, that is, the doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace alone, for Christ's sake alone, through faith alone, without any merit or worthiness in man (Rom. 3:20-28; Gal. 2:16); that he recognizes only those as members of the Christian Church who bow to his authority; and that, like a deluge, he had inundated the whole Church with his antichristian doctrines till God revealed him through the Reformation—these very features are the outstanding characteristics of the Papacy. (Cf. Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 515, Paragraphs 39-41; p. 401, Paragraph 45; M. pp. 336, 258.) Hence we subscribe to the statement of our Confessions that the Pope is "the very Antichrist." (Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 475, Paragraph 10; M., p. 308.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.120.229.150 (talk) 22:22, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

It is the aforementioned "Brief Statement" of the Lutheran churches which is discussed in the prior paragraph. However, it is WP:UNDUE emphasis on a relatively long quote and so I have removed it. Thanks for pointing it out. Elizium23 (talk) 22:45, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Extended discussion of the emergence of monoepiscopacy is not really relevant[edit]

There's a long section discussing how monoepiscopacy emerged, but it's not really relevant to the PAPACY as such. Maybe it needs to be shortened - or separated out as context with a separate heading? Ender's Shadow Snr (talk) 10:45, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Actually this issue is very relevant, as the papacy appears to be the culmination of a tendency to centralize power. In the NT there are always plural bishops/elders in a city church, whenever the situation is explained. We see a tendency to develop monarchal bishop with Diotrephes of 3 John, who loved to have the pre-eminence. The papacy appears to the end of a chain of development: plural bishops > monarchal bishop > patriarch > pope, with the title of pope coming only hundreds of years after Pentecost. (EnochBethany (talk) 20:00, 6 June 2014 (UTC))

Deletion of Claim That Protestants Agree on a Focus on Peter[edit]

I deleted that statement, as it was supported only by a citation from a RCC source. It also is obviously false. Protestants don't agree on much of anything at all. They are split on traditional denominational lines as well as crosswise into Biblicists and evangelicals vs liberals/modernists. In a given denomination there will be drastic differences of opinion on practically everything also. Some want to bless men lying with men by a wedding ceremony. Others abominate it. Some have women in authority, others oppose it. Some believe the Bible is God's Word, others reject it. Some think Jesus is God, for others he is a good teacher. Protestants do not agree in any primacy of Peter. Some may, some may not. This varies across denominations and in denominations. Starting out a sentence claiming that "Most Protestants agree that" can be deleted without reading any further. And BTW, there are also big differences between those who are independent of all denominations, not being either Protestant or Catholic. And RCC persons likewise have big disagreements between each other. For example, the USA Supreme Court is Roman Catholic, and it endorses baby-murder. (EnochBethany (talk) 20:00, 6 June 2014 (UTC))

Hello?[edit]

In the section Monarchical episcopate, what does the information presented have to do with the caption? It does not mention monarchy. Wouldn't this better apply to a section re the Papal States? If it means to suggest some pre-eminence of status, than perhaps another phrase would be clearer. Mannanan51 (talk) 20:26, 16 July 2014 (UTC)