Talk:Predestination

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Non-NPOV in Christianity seciton[edit]

The subsection "Biblical support of predestination" states "Some Biblical verses often used as sources for Christian beliefs in predestination are below. Note that most of these verses do not distinguish between the conditional election (Arminian) and unconditional election (Calvinist), but are simply evidence of some type of election".

The subsection "Biblical support of free will" states "It is evident from the Biblical scriptures that God creates options that humans can choose; our ability to have chosen another option is essential to God caring about the choice that we make (and His particular absolute, more than temporal, unchanging, eternal judgement of that choice)".

This looks non-NPOV to me, as it seems to impy that the "Biblical support of free will" is the correct interpretation of the scripture. (And indeed, that God exists and the Bible is true). Iapetus (talk) 00:11, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that last bit especially was blatantly POV, and I have removed it. StAnselm (talk) 01:23, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Pagan predestination[edit]

It's worth a mention that several pagan religions believed that humans' fates are out of their hands. In Greek mythology, for example, the three Fates determine when someone is born, what "path" their life will take, and how long it'll be before humans die. Even the gods were subject to fate, though not nearly to the same extent. Germanic paganism holds a similar view. SorcererCallandira2 (talk) 09:17, 16 January 2013 (UTC)SorcererCallandira2

The lead defines the subject of the article as "the doctrine that all events have been willed by God," so I don't see much relevance for what you describe. --JFH (talk) 16:13, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

"In Yoruba mythology, it is also believed that the issue of predestination hold firmly a traditional/spiritual opinion relating to the creation of human race by the supreme being (God). It is argued that all human being has chosen hes or her destiny from the supreme being call "Olodumare" in Yoruba mythology and as such acting in accordance to what destiny has been chosen, which in a large extent cannot by any means whatsoever be changed. Thus this conception is then opened to criticism to determine the wrongness or the rightness of whatever course of action exhibited by human being since he or she is only acting in accordance to what has been chosen by him." 11:24. 8 September 2014 (IPOOLA) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ipoolawunmi (talkcontribs) 10:27, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, but a great part of this article is beside the point[edit]

Sorry, but a great part of this article is beside the point, including the very first sentence. No, predestination is not "the doctrine that all events have been willed by God". No one has ever used the word in this way. There exist such a doctrine indeed, and it has the precise name "Providence", and has never been called anything else. Predestination, on the other hand, means Providence in so far it concerns the fact that people finally go to Heaven. "Predestination" has never been used in any other sense than meaning this eternal fate. Nor is this doctrine specifically Calvinistic, at best, it should be said somewhere in the body of the article, not the introduction, that it tends to be associated with Calvinism. The decisive doctrine of Calvinism in this matter is "positive reprobation ante praevisa merita". Calvin himself saw no difference there, which is why he taught it, but that is neither neutral point of view nor - I'm Catholic, as you guessed - the right point of view.--77.4.46.200 (talk) 15:09, 25 May 2013 (UTC)